Post: Why Evolution?
10-24-2011, 12:22 PM #1
TornadoCreator
A Storm Approaches.
(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); This is something that honestly bothers me because, of all the things to choose to fight against, this makes so little sense.

Naturally, I'm talking about the anti-evolution movement which is being mocked and ridiculed by everyone with at least a high school education. It's been bothering me for a while but I wanted to put it in text because really I'd love an answer to some questions from at least one Creationist (and I know NGU has at least a couple of crazies so don't be shy). My question is simply this...

Why Evolution?

Of all the scientific theories to decide your religion is incompatible with, why this one? It makes so little sense. There are literally thousands of scientific theories, some of them, particularly when it comes to areas like quantum physics, that have little supporting evidence, or are entirely theoretical, supported by mathematical models only as they're effectively untestable with current technology. So why pick Evolution, one of the most studied, most well understood, most important modern scientific theory of the last 200 years. Evolution is the basis behind agriculture, animal breading, all forms of medical research, and modern sanitation. Without understanding the mechanisms of Evolution, our species would still have life expectancies in the 40's.

Now, I've come to a conclusion, but I don't understand the reasoning.

Creationists are arguing against Evolution when they actively know Evolution is a fact. Why? I'm honestly not sure...

Creationist tend towards the following actions:

First they will describe Evolution in an incorrect manner or completely change the subject all together. Asking how life began or asking for "evolution" to explain why the planets formed. This is obviously stupid, that's like asking me to tell you how Gravity explains the flavour of cheddar cheese. Gravity has sod all to do with cheese, just as Evolution has sod all to do with the planets forming or the beginning of life. The thing is, every time a Creationist makes this argument we tell them what Evolution actually is, so they already know their error. We don't need to tell them again. They're ACTIVELY ignoring our arguments and making up completely fake ones because they already know the memorised retorts for them.

Secondly, when asked to explain Creationism, or Intelligent Design, whichever name you want to use, they will always resort to the same bullshit reasoning. Usually using the universal constants, of some version of irreducible complexity as a justification for believing in this shit. Again, these arguments where refuted years ago, I can even take you to 5 year old YouTube videos of people refuting them. Even more insulting is the false dichotomy given. The implication is that, either they're right or everything "randomly got that way", which is bullshit. Creationists know that Evolution is not a mechanism based on chance, we've told them time and time again.

Thirdly the Creationist will argue that our evidence is faulty, asking for the "missing link", even though there hasn't been a "missing link" in the human ancestry for over 2 decades. They'll try to argue that carbon dating is faulty, that archaeology is flawed, or even try to claim certain fossils are fake. Again, once a Creationist makes these arguments, the reasonable person arguing with said Creationist will naturally show them reams of evidence, which the Creationist insists on ignoring.

Lastly the Creationist will usually argue against "morality" which is basically insinuating that I am a raving monster ready to be set free. It's sick emotional pleading and a desperate attempt the scapegote this issue.

So... what the hell is it about Evolution that pisses off the Creationists so much? What possible reason do they have to purposely and continuously lie? I just don't understand... what possible benefit could Creationists have for a world filled by idiots, no medical research and no tech advancement? It just seems so counter-intuitive.

Anyone who can give me an answer, please do... oh and don't try to disprove Evolution, you're not good enough for that, any of you. So...

Why???
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10-25-2011, 08:12 PM #20
TornadoCreator
A Storm Approaches.
Originally posted by luckiecookie View Post
I disagree with you that evolution doesn't do anything. It initiates people to think or question about their faith/beliefs. (This is good but that's not always what religions want.)
In the past (or even now), most religions claims that human being are created from their god. They read "God made Adam from dirt" as "GOD made HUMAN from dirt".

Evolution is disapproving religion by saying "human being" is not made from their god and what they believe is fault. (Please understand that God is usually almighty or perfect and god can not be wrong)


Yeah, I understand that, but what stops people from simply refining there belief. It's starts out as "God made humans from dirt" and becomes:

"God made humans from dirt by creating a spark of life in otherwise inert organic compounds found in the dirt, these compounds formed into the first life forms which grew on Gods planet, adapting to the changes that happens through the natural processes of whether, tectonic shift and seasons, also put in place by God. After millions of years these organisms became complex animals which changes in many different ways, creating a vast diversity of life, the most advanced of which being humans. This is HOW God made Humans from dirt."

From my perspective, evolution doesn't disprove religion if anything an argument can be made to say it supports it. If they want to believe God made humans from dirt that's fine... but HOW did God make humans from dirt, because you know what, I also accept humans came from something small; microscopic single cell organisms. I can see how less enlightened people (ie. the time of the Bibles writing), would just see that as "the stuff in dirt", so the concept, "Man came from dirt" is perfectly reasonable, if simplistic. Evolution agrees with, and in fact proves this to be the case. There is no other method of creating man from dirt without resorting to "Magic", so isn't it reasonable to assume that God used Evolution to make humans (and all other life for that matter) as part of his grand plan, this is God after all, isn't it fair to assume he can plan a slow complex process like Evolution if he wants...

As a point of reference. I am arguing from the assumption of "God exists" in this post, I'm arguing theoretic points, I do not actually believe in God in case anyone is wondering. I'm simply suspending disbelief to better make my point.
10-25-2011, 08:30 PM #21
luckiecookie
Bounty hunter
Yeah, that totally make sense to me as well.

The problem is "refining" is difficult in most religious. And people always resists to change.
Remind you: It takes over hundred years for Vatican to clear the name of Galileo? Over a hundred years!!

I believe Evolution will eventually be acceptable but it needs more time.
10-25-2011, 10:34 PM #22
Booshykins
Tech Enthusiast
Originally posted by luckiecookie View Post
I disagree with you that evolution doesn't do anything. It initiates people to think or question about their faith/beliefs. (This is good but that's not always what religions want.)
In the past (or even now), most religions claims that human being are created from their god. They read "God made Adam from dirt" as "GOD made HUMAN from dirt".

Evolution is disapproving religion by saying "human being" is not made from their god and what they believe is fault. (Please understand that God is usually almighty or perfect and god can not be wrong)


The theory of evolution says nothing of the sort. It explains how we came to be the way we are today, not how it all started. This theory could easily go hand-in-hand with what seems to be all popularly practiced religions, as TornadoCreator has mentioned.

Like the Big Bang theory, which attempts to explain how everything expanded and became what it is today, a very common misconception among atheists and creationists alike is that both theories attempt to explain the start of everything, when neither really do.

None of it is how it began, at least not intentionally, it's how we got to this point in progression.
10-25-2011, 11:52 PM #23
ResistTheSun
In Flames Much?
Originally posted by TornadoCreator View Post
I disagree avidly, Evolution isn't trying to do anything, Evolution has nothing to do with religion, it's just the scientific explanation for the complexity and variety of life on earth and the method by which life adapts, nothing more. Evolution has nothing to say on the subject or religion, doesn't mention nor oppose God, and is entirely compatible with every mainstream religion today. This is why I find it so odd that the religious oppose it so fervently.


Precisely, and while I disagree with the world-view, this seems like a much more reasonable way of maintaining faith with the evidence as it is. It makes sense for a religious person to assume God simply used Evolution as part of his plan, after all, such an elegant, self regulating, complex system is exactly the kind of thing that our brains would not be able to independently design, it would take a truly abstract mind to plan Evolution, and surely most religious people would agree God has an abstract mind. I wonder why the religious don't simply take this view, it's surely much easier than arguing against Evolution when they know it's right, provably so.

---------- Post added at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------


While your explanation is well thought out and probably correct in the eyes of the Creationists, that they feel Evolution is challenging their faith and they must fight back to remain relevant, and to keep control one point I'm not sure about.


Really? Does it? The core of many religions is that we don't adapt to our surrounding over generations eventually mutating enough that we become different species, and this is the method by which the vast variety of life has formed. I thought the core of modern religions was about faith, the test of life, divine judgement and the will of God. Why would a theory about the diversity of life challenge this? Now, I've no doubt you're right, many Creationists feel Evolution challenges their faith, but why? how? I don't see where religion and evolution clashes, I really don't.


Religion at the end of the day was made to explain the world around us
That the core what i mean.
Reason why it clashes another way to explain it. And in the modern world it hard to keep relevant. Because other places explaining the world.
10-26-2011, 11:05 PM #24
GE90
< ^ > < ^ >
I think God created the Universe and he lets science do the rest. Who says God and science cant work hand and hand?
10-27-2011, 01:59 AM #25
Originally posted by GE90 View Post
I think God created the Universe and he lets science do the rest. Who says God and science cant work hand and hand?


Who says there's any proof of God, oh no wait there isn't. So why believe? You may as-well believe in pixies and goblins, too.

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GE90
10-27-2011, 03:14 AM #26
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Cade
Guest
Originally posted by Clutch
Who says there's any proof of God, oh no wait there isn't. So why believe? You may as-well believe in pixies and goblins, too.


and Santa

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GE90
11-01-2011, 02:35 AM #27
Sir
Reeferlution
An open minded person should be able to accept evolution as fact, which explains HOW things work, and turn to religion to answer questions such as WHY these things occur.
11-01-2011, 02:49 AM #28
Just4Hax
"I will speak ill of
Originally posted by GE90 View Post
I think God created the Universe and he lets science do the rest. Who says God and science cant work hand and hand?

The fact science is in the process of overturning all of what humanity has thought God has done. Secondly, which god are u referring to.
Thirdly, there are many theories disproving god.

---------- Post added at 07:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

Originally posted by Sir View Post
An open minded person should be able to accept evolution as fact, which explains HOW things work, and turn to religion to answer questions such as WHY these things occur.

I don't understand what you are saying.

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