(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); It's something I've always considered to be somewhat irritiating but I feel with recent releases and console drama (particularly with the PSN) there's been a lot of what I call retro-fanboism but it's not amongst the fans, it's amongst the media.

If you spend any time on Gametrailers, N4G, Kotaku, IGN, Gamespot, Giant Bomb, Blistered Thumbs, Destructoid or pretty much any other website where game reviews, particularly top 10 lists, are posted you'll see a common trend. Certain games get excessive amounts of praise, usually Nintendo games. Which games? We I'm sure you can guess some of them...

Well I've decided to make a top 10 most overrated games list. Which I'll explain in a second, because well... why not cause a little drama and get a discussion going and then I want to talk a little bit about retro gamers.

1. Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time (N64)
2. Super Mario 64 (N64)
3. Goldeneye (N64)
4. Tetris (Gameboy)
5. Super Mario Bros. (NES)
6. Final Fantasy VII (PSOne)
7. Doom (PC)
8. Portal (PC)
9. Duke Nukem 3D (PC)
10. Conker's Bad Fur Day (N64)

10. Conker's Bad Fur Day (N64)
This game is a major disappointment for me. It's an average 3D platformer for the fifth generation, and it's controls where decent I suppose, but this game is made out to be some kind of comedy masterpiece. I'm sorry it's just not. It's not even slightly funny. Maybe it was aimed at a younger audience. I was 15 when this game came out. I just don't find jokes about being drunk, throwing up, or well... shit basically, entertaining. It's like listening to bad stand up and when at 15 a game toated for it's humour seemed too immature it has problems. Yet still it tops top 10 and top 20 lists for the N64, even making it into "games of all time" lists written by people in their 30's... seriously guys, that's sad.

9. Duke Nukem 3D (PC)
Maybe I simply lack a sense of humour but this one just doesn't make sense to me, maybe it's because it's aimed at Americans, I don't know. I'm apparently playing as an overly cocky, womaniser, who really likes guns and shooting things. It's like something a child would write. Again, this game is supposed to be incredibly funny but it's not. It barely managed to raise a smile out of me. If anything it feels like someone mixed GI-Joe with Johnny Bravo and tried to make a game out of it.

8. Portal (PC)
I know this is sacrilage but honestly this needs to be said. Portal is a game I really love, I've played it, I own it, I spent a week playing "Still Alive" over and over on YouTube because damn is it catchy, but this is NOT the holy grail of video games. It's a moderately clever puzzle game made in a modern video game engine, which is entertaining, clever and humourous sure. Worthy of note, and one of the reasons why I would rate 'The Orange Box' as one of my favourite games. It's not however one of the greatest games of all time on it's own. It's too short, lacks replayability and lacks depth and variety. This is no bad thing, it doesn't need to be a long masterpiece, I like it how it is, but we don't need to act like this is the first time we've ever played a decent game before. I consider Portal in much the same way I do Mirrors Edge. They where both interesting games in a first person perspective, one a puzzle game, one a platformer, both genres normally not done in first person. They both had an incredibly style, smooth controls, good use of colour and interesting but minimal story. The only reason Mirrors Edge isn't given the same respect as portal is it wasn't as well polished and the level design wasn't as good. Which is a big thing sure, but the things people loved in Portal are not gifts from God, they're just signs that Valve put in a little extra effort.

7. Doom (PC)
OK now we're into fanboy territory. With the others it could just be my taste in comedy that makes me consider the games overrated but with Doom we're getting to the point where no honest person can reasonably disagree with me. Doom is frequently in top 10 games of all time lists and named as if not the best, usually the second best FPS game of all time. WHY? The game was predicable, has awful graphics, no storyline, no multiplayer, no variety... it's crap. But of course it is. It's one of the first of it's kind, and for it's time it was incredible. The thing is, when we have games like Call Of Duty 4, Resistance 2, Halo: Reach, Bioshock, The Conduit, STALKER, Metro 2033 and indeed Doom 3 we have to admit to ourselves that Doom is not only not one of the best FPS games, it's not even in the top 20. One of the, perhaps maybe THE most influensial FPS game, sure. But it's not the best and shouldn't be treated like such. People need to learn the difference between most influensial and best.

6. Final Fantasy VII (PSOne)
OK... now the fanboys will eat me alive. How dare I? Right? And yeah, how dare I? Final Fantasy VII is a great game... but it's not as good as Final Fantasy V, Final Fantasy VI or Final Fantasy IX. In fact, I even prefer Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X because I prefer the characters and world from 8, and the really quite well polished combat and customiseability from 10 (I played the Pal version with the Advanced Sphere Grid). In fact I find that Final Fantasy VII was slightly hard to follow, largely because if you had a life the damn thing would take over three months to play and the storyline was resolved so very slowly. Sephiroths main motives can be summerised as "mummy issues". Cloud as a character isn't even slightly relateable and the completionist in me cries at things like Bahamut ZERO, Knights Of The Round and the damn Weapons. Yes it's a great game but honestly, there are better RPG's out there. Lost Odyssey for example on the Xbox 360 has much more interesting character, a more suspenseful storyline, incredibly written backstory and a much better and very elegant combat system. Sure I love FFVII, but you know what, reviewers and games journalists routinely put it in the top 10 games of all time and for it's genre, it's actually just an above average game insanely inflated by the fact that it was the first JRPG that many gamers played.

5. Super Mario Bros. (NES)
I was just recently playing Super Mario World. It's a good game sure. I like the Mario series as a whole, but how many times do I need to see the original getting a position on top 10 lists of best games ever, I've even seen it take the number 1 spot before. I'm sorry but NO! We have progressed in gaming somewhat in the last 26 years people, stop rating things with nostalgia for Christ sake and rate it for what it is. For it's time, revolutionary sure, now... mediocre at best. Why? Because more games have come out since then. Better games have come out since then... Hell better Mario games have come out since then, including Super Mario Bros. 2, Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World and that's only considering the 2D games. Hell, the downloadable PC game Super Mario Bros. X is better. Why? Because we took what made Mario great and IMPROVED ON IT! That's what the gaming industry does.

4. Tetris (Gameboy)
Do I need to explain why the average game is better than Tetris? Just because the game sold millions and is an old classic doesn't make it incredible. Hell there are FLASH games that have improved on the basic principle of Tetris. I don't think I need to explain more, only that this game is often rated in the top 10, again, and frequently breaks the Top 5 games of ALL TIME on some websites. What are the people at Gametrailers and IGN smoking, and can I have some?

3. Goldeneye (N64)
OK, now we're into personal hates of mine... which is unfortunate because back in the day I loved Goldeneye. Gametrailers however couldn't love this game anymore without making a creepy Japanese love doll out of the damn thing. It always makes the top 5 games of all time on any major website, and frequently tops lists like "best multiplayer", "best FPS", "best licenced game" etc. It's not that good people. In a straight up contest of which is more fun Goldeneye or Halo: Combat Evolved, I'm siding with Halo (and I don't much like Halo). Again, I have to say this. Influential does not mean best. Just because it's the one who did it right the first time doesn't mean this hasn't been improved on and I have proof. This very forum has a massive Call Of Duty section. It doesn't even have a Goldeneye section. PWNED!

2. Super Mario 64
I really hate this game. I mean seething, absolute, burn it in a chemical fire until even God says "What the f**k is that?!" levels of hatred. Why? Because every youtube who ever makes a list of the best video games of all time puts this at number 2 and then proceeds to describe it as having "perfect controls" and "perfect camera". NO! You are just plain WRONG! This game was aweful, yet it always makes it to the top 5 games of all time. They took Mario, a franchise about tight platforming in which you get from A to B against a time limit whilst collecting power-ups and removed everything that was good. Mushrooms, gone. Fire-flower, gone. Hop-n-bop platforming, gone. Linear levels, gone. Instead we have stupid mini-games throwing bombs and racing penguins down snow slopes mixed in with a bloody scavenger hunt for stars. When I play Mario I don't want a damn scavanger hunt... what is this? and excuse to make me play the same level 5 times. This isn't fun and you know what, when Sonic did this in Sonic 3D Blast (replace Stars with Flicky Birds) it got universal hatred and Sonic Team realised they made a mistake, so why does Mario get a free pass? No good reason, that's why.

1. Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time
You know what. This game makes me so pissed I never want to play it again or even see it, and I've spent less than three hours on this game. Why? Because I'm bloody sick of it. This game get's the number 1 spot on almost every top 10 games of all time list and I'm sick of it. It cannot be this brilliant, it simply can't. I know this because I've been told many times over that Twilight Princess ripped off the Ocarina Of Time story, and I've played that one. Ocarina Of Time doesn't even have smooth controls. There's not even a jump button. Automatic jumping in a third person perspective is so incredibly disorientating. Especially as combat takes place in real time. On top of that, basic plot points don't make sense. In the beginning you're burning down spiders webs in an old tree. Why isn't the damn tree burning. I played a little under 3 hours of this game, got called away to do something else and never found the time to go back. A game that fails to capture my attention so completely may well be good, even great, but the best game of all time, not a chance in hell. Oh yeah, and Zelda fans are the worst fanboys of all time. Even worse than Halo fans or even Kingdom Hearts fans.

So what am I saying, do I just hate games. No, not at all. But people often treat modern games like dirt, and last gen games are even worse. A PS2, Xbox or Gamecube game is pretty much ignored by todays media. It's too old to compete graphics wise, it's already had it's initial rush and it's not old enough yet for the people who played it when they where 8 years old to be in their early 20's and scared that they're youth has sodded off and left them when they weren't looking and thus are grasping onto nostalgia like there's no tomorrow.

I'm not saying classic retro games don't exist. I adore Super Mario Bros. 3, Zelda: Link To The Past, Chrono Trigger and Sonic The Hedgehog 2. Some games are just fun and I still play them today, but all I'm saying is that so often the retro gamer will convince themselves that modern games are crap and it's not fair. Gaming today is better than it ever was, sure there's some awful stuff released, but then there always was, otherwise the Angry Video Game Nerd wouldn't have lasted so long. I think current gen, and more specifically last gen gaming, needs more respect and love and that the video game community and journalism sites need to stop pandering to the fanboys. These lists and all this praise is simply to please retro gamers and overly nostalgic 20 somethings who can't let go of their past, and considering today I played only 3 games, Asteroids, Super Mario World and Final Fantasy VI, this criticism is comming from a retro-gamer... I'm just not so blind as to deny the progress the industry has made, why can't websites like Gametrailers, IGN etc. take off the rose tinted glasses as well?

Thank you for taking the time to read, I welcome responses and look forward to replies (even if you disagree, although I may have to call you stupid and throw sand in your face if you do).

great list and i do agree on some of them anyways still a good job.

Aaaah yes. Angry Birds. It's one of those incredibly addictive games sure and I have spent hours on it. I've probably spent about as much time on Angry Birds as I have on some more modern games such as God Of War. The thing is while I enjoy such games and find them to be mindless fun to some extent I feel it's a matter of finding the levels of enjoyment.

For the most part the games in my list are not bad games. With the exception of Conkers Bad Fur Day which I do feel was a mediocre game on it's time of release that simply got popular with preteen boys who find gross things funny, all the other games where great for their time. Hell, even Super Mario 64 was great for it's time, and while I hate the direction this game took with the franchise and find the controls unintuitive it's not a bad game, just not as incredible as people make out. (I personally found Croc: Legend Of The Gobbos and Crash Bandicoot, both comming out on the same year, to be better attepts at early 3D platforming).

I think the difference is in immersion. Sure I can get that pure fun for even a few hours with Super Mario Bros. or Angry Birds, moreso with Super Mario Bros. because it's simply a better game, but it doesn't immerse me in the game. If I then however play games like Fallout 3 or Lost Odyssey I feel myself drawn in. I can imagine playing these games for days on end, I become invested in the characters and story. The gameplay is fun sure, but I feel a connection to the game you simply can't get with something like Angry Birds. Now people may say, yeah, but they're RPG games, and that's true, I find even older RPG's like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy IV or Diablo have much the same effect on me, but their lesser graphics and restrictive engines, while not an issue at the time, can remove some of the immersion when you go back and play them today. However, even games that are by design pick up and play, or intended to have basic and almost passive storylines like Ratchet & Clank, a platformer, or Gears Of War, a third person action game, can draw me in more than the older games. It's about building an aesthetic, and when you can build photorealistic worlds with graphics, entire philharmonic orchestras for sound, writing staff that 20 years ago would be on movies to write subtle and in depth narratives that games of the previous generations couldn't convey, and a budget to weave this all together with the intention of making a peice of art rather than an electronic board game or toy for children... well, you're going to naturally get something better.

420 asked what would you rather play Super Mario World or Uncharted. I'd rather play Super Mario World. Why? Because it's a great game. It's vibrant, it's exciting, it's easy to get into and it's well designed. But Uncharted is a better game in everything but one way, Super Mario World makes me feel like a kid again and that's why we love it. There's nothing wrong with that, but something bringing back your childhood, causing that lump in your throat and tears in your eyes as you remember a simpler perhaps even happier time, without the worries of adult life. That's a great and powerful thing, but we shouldn't confuse that with artistic merit, otherwise we'd be giving episodes of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles oscars instead of great modern movies like Inception.

Have you ever played Gravity Guy? You should try it, who thought that a game as simple as a tap would be so addictive.

No, I've not. I don't own a smartphone so I rarely play the touchscreen casual games that are comming out for them but I'm sure it's a decent game.

If you're an iPhone user however there are some incredible games out there such as NOVA, Zenonia and the very nice Chaos Rings (which is a Square Enix game, very similar to Final Fantasy VIII in style I find, and an iPhone exclusive). I'd likely find myself playing these game if I got a smartphone. It would feel like my duty to try the best that's burried under this new medium of gaming.

A close friend of mine has the iPhone 4, and my brother recently bought the new Xperia Play so I've been exposed to the games avaliable for such devices and they're sorely underrated. Although if I'm honest, with Chrono Trigger being ported to the iPhone and PSN (for PSP, PSP-Go, PS3 and Xperia Play) at the end of this year, it would be a challenge to not simply play that again, after all, it is an incredible game.

To go back to the original topic for a moment. I'm shocked to see so many people in agreement. Especially when I'm basically tearing down some of the most popular video games of all time. I was somewhat expecting to face a nerd rage or at the very least the odd enraged fanboy. It's nice to see people enjoying my thoughts though.

Actually you can play it on miniclip.

Retro is good.But new games are better.

I couldn't agree with you more if the agreeing fairy came down and slapped me with her agreeing wand. Ocarina of time was the shittest zelda to appear on the face of the earth, i don't understand how it got so much praise, its got wank controls, the storyline was wank, the enemies were wank. the weapons were wank. basically you couldn't have more wank if you gave it to a deprived zelda fanboy to fap over. honestly the GREATEST zelda game of all time is the 2D version Zelda: A Link To The Past, the story was epic for its time, it was amazing gameplay and had interesting and challenging puzzles and excellent weapons.

if your after amazing retro games, think along the lines of Super mario karts(snes), Super Metroid (Snes), those are truly worth a place in a top ten retro list.

Kudos to you for your amazing post and how accurate and correct you are.

just to verify i'd probably be classed as a Final Fantasy fanboy but you hit the nail on the head when you said FF7 isn't the best one, you got it 100% right, the best ones were 8 and 9 by far.

10 posts 2020 rep epic.

Indeed I really do like A Link To The Past, it's a game that I feel benefits from the caricature 2D graphic style and for that it's one of the few classic retro games where improvements could only really be made to something like the story. To see more characterisations, subtle plot developments etc. would be interesting and I'd very much like to see a old style 2D retro game that does an interesting and more complex story because while the story is pretty bold and a good example of high fantasy, it's also rather predictable and lacks and real pacing or tension.


Indeed. I would personally claim as well that the most fun Mario Kart game is the Gameboy Advanced game Super Mario Kart Super Circuit because it had the greatest variety of tracks and characters but kept the difficulty without the unfairness of later games in the series. The Blue Shell and Bullet Bill power-ups removed any need for skill from the games later in the series, and the coins on the floor made driving a decent skillful racing line much more fulfilling and rewarding. It added complexity to the game that ment at the higher end the game became a true game of skill and precision where as it could still be enjoyed as a wacky cart racer by casual gamers in the earlier difficulties.

As for Super Metroid, I don't like it. It's not a bad game, it's just the background graphics are really harsh to me and I find they frequently give me a headache. For me the most enjoyable Metroid game was Metroid: Zero Mission again for the Game Boy Advance (a sadly forgotton handheld). Some people have told me they found it too hard, but I really didn't see that. I found it was the perfect difficulty for me to be challenging enough that I had to try multiple times to beat mother brain but just right enough that it never got frustrating like many difficult games can get. I always felt that when I died it was my fault because I felt very much in control of Samus and was never faced with an entirely unfair challenge. This is, in my opinion, an example of a perfect difficulty curve and it's why it's the only Metroid game I've played through more than twice.


People often criticise FF8 for having a poor storyline, it's even famous for being the series that got Noah Antwiller fame on The Spoony Experiment with his 11 part review/let's play/riff track discussing the game (and to a lesser extent the whole franchise). Personally I'm a believer in the "squalls dead" storyline. It's an interpretation on the FF8 storyline that explains all the plot points really well. Some claim it's too subtle and clever for that to be the intentional way in which the story was ment to be interpreted, but I disagree. I think people are doing Squaresoft a great disservice by accusing their writers of not being capable of coming up with such a complex and even abstract story. I'll actually make a thread on it tonight so if you're interested in hearing more, please go there (I don't want to add spoilers to a general "retro gamers" thread). It changes the entire games tone and meaning for a second play through after hearing this explaination.