umm true but i mean it in ways to grow my knowledge in computer. See its easy for you to stand your ground because you know your computer gadgets but for a noob like me its a different story. Yes i know once you were a noob but still not everyone is alike. I want to be in a team especially to learn from them and to acquire immediate help when needed thats all. My means of hacking and programming is just all but educational, Im not trying to go beserk and learn how to hack sony. All i want is complete understanding of the PC scene and there gadgets thats all nothing much.

Yes, I agree with you on most parts.

Its just when you went all "defacing websites" on me, unless you know what causes SQLI, there's little point in learning it (with the exception of learning it in practice solely to be a script kiddie). My problem with it is, that if I spent my time building a site, buying a domain, buying hosting, and such, I would be pretty upset if someone broke in and defaced my website.... wouldn't you?

I think like website defacing stuff like that, maybe a couple of email hacks i dont know i need to futher look into it. Thats why i believe a hackers team would be a great way for noob to grow and conflict with other hackers.