(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Okay, i don't believe in god, but i mean, although this does make you think.

Consciousness without creation is impossible; creation without consciouness is impossible.

Essentially, if you can prove this statement wrong you have won the athiests' argument. But first, let's examine each of these interdependant statements individually.

Consciousness without creation is impossible


What this means is that if consciousness exists, it MUST create. For example, every being which possesses consciousness will dream. If computers ever gain consciousness, even they will dream. What's more, dreams occur constantly--even if most of them are not remembered by the subject. A dream can best be described as a universe which exists within the consciousness itself--extant from universe within which that consciousness exists. In other words, it is a world within a world.

Ideas or thoughts are another example of the continueous creation of consciousness. (As an experiment, attempt to 'quiet' your mind, extinguishing all thoughts. What happens?)

Creation without consciousness is impossible


This means that there is nothing which exists which is not the result of a conscious mind; which therefore means that there MUST be a God.

This is why athiests and evolutionists seem to go hand-in-hand, for apparently evolution is an example of creation without consciousness. It is simply what naturally results when you have a system which possesses: variation, selection and heredity. When applied to the evolution of ideas, this is known as memetics (which means that ideas, just like plants and animals, can become extinct or endangered).

Therefore, ideas, thoughts--and by extension, dreams--are not 'created' but rather are the result of evolution. Consciousness itself is merely the by-product of evolution.


It's at this point that we should define what consciousness actually is: the process of becoming self-aware. Thus, memetics implies that becoming self-aware, and growing in self-awareness, is a natural consequence of the evolutionary process (variation + selection + heredity).

According to those who have extensively studied the conscience and psychology, consciousness implies 4 characteristics: subjectivity, change, continuity, and selectivity.

If a key element of consciousness is the ability to be selective, and selection is an essential part of the evolutionary process, this implies--rather infadically--that consciousness has an influence over evolution.

But evolution has an influence, and is in fact responsible for, consciousness, as exemplified by another key characteristic of consciousness: change. The ability to change is synonymous with evolution.

However, once consciousness is brought into the equation, it has an inevitable impact on evolution as a result of its ability to be selective (i.e. make decisions). The decisions which that conscious entity, or entities, makes will have an inevitable impact on the system/world around it, which will effect the evolution of that system/world.

The consciousness is now taking an active part in its own evolution!

In sum, consciousness is the inevitable result of evolution, and evolution is inevitably effected by consciousness. This is not a casuality dilemma (chicken or the egg), since it is obvious which came first: evolution*. However, as consciousness expands, it has a greater and greater impact on evolution. This is clearly and indisputably evident in human beings. It is inevitable then, that a 'tipping point' will occur, in which consciousness' impact on evolution is greater than evolution's impact on consciousness.

In other words, God is inevitable.

*It should however be noted that a God consciousness would have a much different view of time than our current level of conciousness allows. Time is relative, after all, and the ultimate cause of all this--the so-called Big Bang--itself has an unknown cause. Our linear view of time is only a result of our 'small' perspective, in the same way the earth feels flat.


Okay, so it's either 'god' was described by the ancients to be aliens.

Mars maybe? He's certainly not from this planet. I'm taking this as there is life on other planets, shame it's not intelligent...

---------- Post added at 04:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 AM ----------



Just4Hax deserves a medal. I used to do the same thing in the God vs Fact thread until I realized just how ****ing stupid humanity really is. Being able to keep going with it this long is a miracle.

Too many theories and not enough action I say.
Prove to me that a god exists and I comment no further and admit defeat,but until then,bring it on.
Seeing is believing.

And why is it that you seem to abuse the groan button out of no apparent reason being for the cause?
As Pricey91 merely asked for proof,which I see no harm or insult and you groaned at him?
Do you not understand the rights and wrongs in life?
Or is an infraction in the cards for you for misuse of the groan button?

---------- Post added at 01:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------



And you'd have to prove to me first that a hell even exists before you start sending people there in the first place.

Can a mod please close this thread:
1. It's not a debate
2. There is no logic
3. The OP isn't responding and he is the only one believing that particular way

Allow me to state some points politely. The holy books have not been proven true. What proof do you guys have? Religious people use faith to believe in them. Religious people seem to talk as if they have some sort of proof that the bible absolutely shows how things really are. The onus of responsibility and proof is on the theists since they are making a claim of the existence of 'God'. Atheists are not making a claim that God does not exist, generally we DO NOT believe.

Religion and God is a theory because it is anything but proven.

Careful before this turns into a flame Anyways you should check out the God Vs Fact thread.