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Alright so I don't know how many of you know about this or have heard of it in the past but Donald Trump once proposed a Wealth Tax which would be a one time thing for all men and women worth over 10 million dollars and the tax would be 14.25% now sounds like a lot and it sure as hell is honestly but of course the up side of this is that of course it would knock a large chunk off of the debt. Now this was back in 1999 when he proposed this and a lot has changed since then.

As of 9/30/99 the National Debt was $5.656 trillion only a fraction of the current $16.734 trillion making it much more appealing as it would generate an estimated (as of 1999) 5.7 trillion dollars which in 1999 would basically completely eliminate the debt now while that wouldn't be as much now it would still be over 1/3 which is a lot. Also you have to remember there are more people who have over 10 million dollars than they did in 1999 so it would be a bigger number although there is really no easy way to calculate how much more.

Question is do you think that this would be a good thing or not? I personally think I could lean both ways. The thing is when you start to take away wealth from people who did nothing but earn it no matter how much they have and how much more than they need in your eyes it starts to eliminate that "American Dream" people start to lose motivation to invent to work as hard because if it is just going to be ripped from their feet when they have a lot then whats the point? I think there would be a lot of people getting around it when they were approaching that point by donating to charity or such.

I think while the benefits are undeniably huge and as much as I would love to say no there is other ways honestly not that we have found as of yet. We haven't really found anything working well to knock chunks off our debt and while I am a Republican unlike 80% of this forum and even though it isn't the path I want to go down we're getting down to like last strings here.

Try to keep arguments out of here and keep discussing.

I would prefer honestly that people outside of the US just don't even reply because 90% of you just have no conception.

Donald Trump idea is pretty intersting for a number of reasons it closes the wealth gap, it also intersting based on his political views. The number I think is the same rate of tax most millionaires pay in the US or close too right now due to loop holes. Some other fun stuff that people in suits can do at the same time ruining the stock market. < Note that is meant as a joke the last line.

As the higher earners 1% have seen a 60%-70% to in terms of real incomes and wealth vs 2% increases which is below inflation for 90% of the population. If you want I can find the real numbers I did make them up but I believe that close to the truth.
Onwards to my point when the super rich and rich have been paying low taxes for some time vs the rest of population that strikes as a inbalance. You can see the result has not been that wealth moves to the rest of the population it sticks with a small group and does not help.
USA has been doing this model for years now and the results show it does not work. I know a lot of people in the US hate the idea of higher taxes but higher taxes on people who have 60-70% more wealth means lower rates on the rest.
So his idea is crazy but does not fix the problem the US has been having for some time.

Enough room which is not being used that could be taxed and provide services to the rest. At the same time that tax could be used on non welfare spending for captal spending. Which the US is badly needs to upgrade, could do with higher taxes which brings in growth which means jobs.
Failure to invest means lower growth in the longer term. May look like you're adding to your debt but you're reducing it by spending on captail. Been a massive debate about that with the IMF changing it mind.
That if you US is fine with it inequailty and wants the state not to bother fixing it. However enough money in the system to do both without much issue.

Sadly the "American Dream" is myth, you're born into a poor family in the US you're likely to stay poor.
“If Americans Want to Live the American Dream, They Should Move to Denmark.” ~ Ryan Pinkard
Social mobility of the US is some of the lowest in the world with it tax system right now. Compared to noderic nations which have high Social mobility with high personal taxes low business rates. Guess what nordic nations top most of the tables of the world when it comes to competition/happyness even education etc. They also have less social problems, how do they do this they tax the rich a lot and have low business rates. They use that tax to close ineqauilities and private sector provides some welfare services. Nordic nations which have less ineqauilty have lower personal taxes, overall the tax rate has been lowered due to it success. So as you see it a balance , not a fully socialism system like some people would like to paint it.
"lose motivation" as you can see that does not happen

Is a reason why china and other nations which are moving up in the world are taking note of the nordic model it works. Has not stopped growth, hell most of the nordic nations have avoid deep recessions unlike certain parts of the world did. And right now have growth with stable budget sheets, also had less boom and bust.

In short
US needs a higher tax on the rich, it needs to do it now close all the loop holes and start investing for it future. Low borrowing rates means the US could easy do that, along with higher taxes to fix inequalities fixing it deep problems.
The increase in overall wealth at the top vs how much they pay in tax needs to close the gap is too big. Start doing that you can start fixing the massive social inequailties which are holding the US back. Debt should not be the main worry, inequalities are much bigger real problem with lasting with damage.
Time for both sides to see the undeniably reaility it needs to happen. And should work together getting the best deal for people state should help along with the private sector.

Hope that sort of reply you was looking for.

The last line is a bit unfair, I would apply that to most of NGU not just people who don't live in the US.

The most intelligent post I've seen on this forum yet regarding this kind of topic.

Most Americans think they have a great political and economic system. They really don't..... both systems are broken and they really need to start learning lessons from other parts of the world.

I read an interesting article a couple of months ago and I can't find it for the life of me about the US GFC bail out of banks. It had an interesting question of the benefits of not bailing out those banks and using that money instead to pay out directly the mortgages of every citizen with sub prime mortgages and mortgages below 250k and the numerous positive benefits that would have had on the state of the economy instead of the deeper mess it is in now. Makes you wonder why that wasn't considered as an option.

Here I was thinking nobody saw it :p
Thank you

On banks need to kill off the zombie banks, restart the system. Put in new rules along with a clear system which stops problems before they appear. Banks need to be smaller, easier to control.
Iceland let it banks go bust which had some strange results. I can't remember half of them.

This underlines that the US needs to get over its hysteria that regulation is a dirty thing. The bankers caused this mess because the rules allowed them to. On top of that instead of being punished for it, they got rewarded. It really is mind boggling. I moved back to Australia just after the GFC hit and I'm glad I did. Here the banking regulations are among the best in the world. Technically we weren't touched by the GFC, though this is is also partly thanks to China being hungry for our resources. I'd really hate to be in a port of the world right now where there is 20+ percent unemployment.

The government has long been dictating what businesses can and cannot do, the United States (when it still followed an almost entire capitalist approach) was able to produce the best products, and produce them at the best prices while paying their workers the most. Regulations were light and free markets were left to compete with one another. People have extremely vague methods of trying to prove their case and yet they use no evidence to back up their claims whatsoever. Having the federal government involved in private businesses is what has caused this mess in the first place. Just look at Iceland vs USA in the 2008 financial collapse. Obviously the Keynesian approach would be to say that the banks must be bailed out and the government must get involved in the banking system and the reason they failed was because they were "unregulated". What did Iceland do? Oh yeah, they let their 3 major banks fail. And guess what, they recovered faster, and the free market was allowed to restructure and get back up on its feet. Now it's moving towards very stable growth, and I should say real growth. Not that growth you see on CNN which is literally just bubbles being created by the federal government printing and subsidizing markets. You can't be painting the entire 1% with the "banker brush". There are people who abused the system, but the vast majority of those people who everyone hates were really people who employ people and are still painted as greedy people. Donald Trump is one of those people. He employs thousands of people and owns a very successful chain of hotels etc. worldwide, and yet people still claim that he is a greedy asshole who needs to pay more.

I don't really understand why there is any justification whatsoever to have the rich pay any more taxes. Direct your anger towards the federal government who has caused all of the messes in the housing systems/banking systems. Look towards the federal reserve for printing trillions a year pumping housing markets full of money. Everything you see right now is artificial growth, the economy is not recovering, it's getting worse and getting much worse. The housing market will crash again within this decade at this rate, the fed cannot continue to keep interest rates at 1% forever by printing money, it will eventually come to a point where the currency has been so devalued that everyone (those who save money etc.) will be effected. What I cannot understand is how people can seriously think that having the government in control of markets is going to make things cheaper and more accessible for the people. In Canada for example, we have a lot of markets that are under government control, like alcohol and internet. Those markets where all competition is completely illegal is where we see the prices being ridiculously high. Is that the ideal for people? Is this what people really want? People point the finger at capitalism being the problem, but I doubt the people even realize that the United States isn't even a capitalist country. Capitalism died a long time ago, and a corrupt form of socialism mixed with capitalism emerged known as corporatism.

This is what happens when you have a government being bought by businesses, and visa versa. People march on "occupy wallstreet" because they hate the bankers for being "greedy". They don't realize that the government is in control of those bankers! What they are saying is a little like saying "keep your government hands off my welfare". It makes no sense, and it goes to show how misinformed people really are about basic economics, and unfortunately (while I cannot supply facts for this) I suspect these are in the majority of the voting public. They want more government regulations on businesses that are being controlled by the government for the large majority of the part.

The income tax idea is not needed at the end of the day. It's more important that the government quits printing and spending money that it doesn't have. If the united states really wanted to fix their economy they would cut taxes for all brackets and stop "investing" money on useless things like education:

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This is just one of many examples that investing means nothing when the system is broken. This is just an excuse to ask for more tax dollars and an excuse to create more artificial bubbles for the future. The United States needs to have harsher regulations against government intervention/bribes, not more regulations against the businesses themselves.

Now about the "inequalities". That is being caused by the federal reserve printing money at the tune of trillions a year. They are keeping interest rates extremely low so that those in the middle class who are saving for their retirement simply cannot! They are not making any money on their investments because yep, you guessed it, the federal government is to blame yet again. To suggest that the middle class is unequal because of capitalism is a fallacy. Before the federal reserve printed this kind of money the inequalities were much less, and the effective tax rates were lower actually then they are now in most cases. In case you are someone who still things taxes are now lower than they were in the past, please brush up on economics for a bit. The marginal rate was "90%" but the effective tax rates paid were about 49% if not less, which was much less compared to the rest of the world at that time. Right now we have "40%" tax rates which are really 50% effective tax rates anyways. Most rich people like Peter Schiff report being taxed about 55% of their salaries. The problem is not the fact that the rich aren't paying enough, it's the fact that the federal reserve has devalued the dollar and kept interest rates so low. It practically makes investments for retirement etc. completely useless for the people, and THAT is why the inequality is so large.


It seems that government has created the majority of these problems, and the people still think that more government is going to solve everything. The US is down a slippery path, and if it continues this Keynesian approach it will have no choice left but to go completely bankrupt in the future. The housing bubble is growing, stock markets, job growth, everything really is just artificial growth that is being done through printing and spending of money. Once the fed realizes it's in trouble then panic will ensue, I just hope people can realize this before it's too late. Which it might already be.

Do plan on replying to this fully but curious to see your justification on taxes.
Also need to make sure my reply is fitting with the topic at hand.
So any studies would be nice

he is not going to make anything happen