Post: PS4 won the Xbox 720 battle with Windows 8?
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04-13-2013, 12:50 AM
#1
xLew--
Former Staff
It has been rumored that the next Xbox is just another Windows 8 console box, essentially a PC where the porting process of video game titles would be much easier, and cheaper while targeting the casual demographic with DVR feature.
Timothy Lottes wrote on his blog early this year detailing his thoughts on next generation consoles, calling both rumored PS4 and Xbox 720 as “Orbis and Durango”.
He started his blog post by stating that the Eurogamer’s article which has been posted two weeks ago featuring the next PlayStation as “mostly correct” but “with the exception of maybe exact clocks, amount of memory, and number of enabled cores”.
On PS4
The real reason to get excited about a PS4 is what Sony as a company does with the OS and system libraries as a platform, and what this enables 1st party studios to do, when they make PS4-only games. If PS4 has a real-time OS, with a libGCM style low level access to the GPU, then the PS4 1st party games will be years ahead of the PC simply because it opens up what is possible on the GPU.
Note this won’t happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case. As a PC guy who knows hardware to the metal, I spend most of my days in frustration knowing damn well what I could do with the hardware, but what I cannot do because Microsoft and IHVs wont provide low-level GPU access in PC APIs.
One simple example, drawcalls on PC have easily 10x to 100x the overhead of a console with a libGCM style API.
Note this won’t happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case. As a PC guy who knows hardware to the metal, I spend most of my days in frustration knowing damn well what I could do with the hardware, but what I cannot do because Microsoft and IHVs wont provide low-level GPU access in PC APIs.
One simple example, drawcalls on PC have easily 10x to 100x the overhead of a console with a libGCM style API.
On Xbox 720
Working here assuming the Eurogamer Article is close to correct. On this platform I’d be concerned with memory bandwidth. Only DDR3 for system/GPU memory pared with 32MB of “ESRAM” sounds troubling.
If this GPU is pre-GCN with a serious performance gap to PS4, then this next Xbox will act like a boat anchor, dragging down the min-spec target for cross-platform next-generation games.
My guess is that the real reason for 8GB of memory is because this box is a DVR which actually runs “Windows” (which requires a GB or two or three of “overhead”), but like Windows RT (Windows on ARM) only exposes a non-desktop UI to the user.
There are a bunch of reasons they might ditch the real-time console OS, one being that if they don’t provide low level access to developers, that it might enable a faster refresh on backwards compatible hardware. In theory the developer just targets the box like it was a special DX11 [DirectX 11] “PC” with a few extra changes like hints for surfaces which should go in ESRAM, then on the next refresh hardware, all prior games just get better FPS or resolution or AA.
Of course if they do that, then it is just another PC, just lower performance, with all the latency baggage, and lack of low level magic which makes 1st party games stand out and sell the platform.
If this GPU is pre-GCN with a serious performance gap to PS4, then this next Xbox will act like a boat anchor, dragging down the min-spec target for cross-platform next-generation games.
My guess is that the real reason for 8GB of memory is because this box is a DVR which actually runs “Windows” (which requires a GB or two or three of “overhead”), but like Windows RT (Windows on ARM) only exposes a non-desktop UI to the user.
There are a bunch of reasons they might ditch the real-time console OS, one being that if they don’t provide low level access to developers, that it might enable a faster refresh on backwards compatible hardware. In theory the developer just targets the box like it was a special DX11 [DirectX 11] “PC” with a few extra changes like hints for surfaces which should go in ESRAM, then on the next refresh hardware, all prior games just get better FPS or resolution or AA.
Of course if they do that, then it is just another PC, just lower performance, with all the latency baggage, and lack of low level magic which makes 1st party games stand out and sell the platform.
He also let out a few information about his “personal project”,
My personal project is targeting 1080p@60fps with great AA on a 560ti which is a little slower than the rumored Orbis specs. There is no way my engine would hit that target on the rumored 720 specs. Ultimately on Orbis I guess devs target 1080p/30fps (with some motion blur) and leverage the lower latency OS stack and scan out at 60fps (double scan frames) to provide a really great lower-latency experience. Maybe the same title on 720 would render at 720p/30fps, and maybe Microsoft is dedicating a few CPU hardware threads to the GPU driver stack to remove the latency problem (assuming this is a “Windows” OS under the covers).
Some may not know who is Timothy Lottes, but he has established himself as one of the influential figures in console development arena after he created an anti-aliasing algorithm called Fast Approximate Anti-Aliasing (FXAA) under NVIDIA.
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Just reveal the next xbox already!! we want to see the real specs and see how they compare.
The following 8 users say thank you to xLew-- for this useful post:
04-13-2013, 06:19 PM
#12
ResistTheSun
In Flames Much?
04-14-2013, 02:25 AM
#13
Hadenkin
< ^ > < ^ >
If XBOX720 will run with Windows 8 it will be a complete failure, as many people won't change the OS of their PCs as the Windows 8 is a whole new interface that is messy and confusing, I believe it will be something to take into account, that players will take into account when choosing their next-gen console.
04-14-2013, 03:05 PM
#15
partypoker15
Call me G
Xbox really needs to release the specs for the 720. Surely they see how far behind in the race they are they better have 100 gallons of nitro in the back (metaphor for they better have a massive amount of great features) if they wanna catch up. Only problem is, Sony still hasn't shown us the console, which could be like hitting nitro of their own, or hitting the hand break by accident.
04-14-2013, 06:05 PM
#16
XxBEASTxX_TJ
Grunt
Originally posted by xLew
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It has been rumored that the next Xbox is just another Windows 8 console box, essentially a PC where the porting process of video game titles would be much easier, and cheaper while targeting the casual demographic with DVR feature.
Timothy Lottes wrote on his blog early this year detailing his thoughts on next generation consoles, calling both rumored PS4 and Xbox 720 as “Orbis and Durango”.
He started his blog post by stating that the Eurogamer’s article which has been posted two weeks ago featuring the next PlayStation as “mostly correct” but “with the exception of maybe exact clocks, amount of memory, and number of enabled cores”.
On PS4
On Xbox 720
He also let out a few information about his “personal project”,
Some may not know who is Timothy Lottes, but he has established himself as one of the influential figures in console development arena after he created an anti-aliasing algorithm called Fast Approximate Anti-Aliasing (FXAA) under NVIDIA.
You must login or register to view this content. via You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
----------
Just reveal the next xbox already!! we want to see the real specs and see how they compare.
It has been rumored that the next Xbox is just another Windows 8 console box, essentially a PC where the porting process of video game titles would be much easier, and cheaper while targeting the casual demographic with DVR feature.
Timothy Lottes wrote on his blog early this year detailing his thoughts on next generation consoles, calling both rumored PS4 and Xbox 720 as “Orbis and Durango”.
He started his blog post by stating that the Eurogamer’s article which has been posted two weeks ago featuring the next PlayStation as “mostly correct” but “with the exception of maybe exact clocks, amount of memory, and number of enabled cores”.
On PS4
The real reason to get excited about a PS4 is what Sony as a company does with the OS and system libraries as a platform, and what this enables 1st party studios to do, when they make PS4-only games. If PS4 has a real-time OS, with a libGCM style low level access to the GPU, then the PS4 1st party games will be years ahead of the PC simply because it opens up what is possible on the GPU.
Note this won’t happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case. As a PC guy who knows hardware to the metal, I spend most of my days in frustration knowing damn well what I could do with the hardware, but what I cannot do because Microsoft and IHVs wont provide low-level GPU access in PC APIs.
One simple example, drawcalls on PC have easily 10x to 100x the overhead of a console with a libGCM style API.
Note this won’t happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case. As a PC guy who knows hardware to the metal, I spend most of my days in frustration knowing damn well what I could do with the hardware, but what I cannot do because Microsoft and IHVs wont provide low-level GPU access in PC APIs.
One simple example, drawcalls on PC have easily 10x to 100x the overhead of a console with a libGCM style API.
On Xbox 720
Working here assuming the Eurogamer Article is close to correct. On this platform I’d be concerned with memory bandwidth. Only DDR3 for system/GPU memory pared with 32MB of “ESRAM” sounds troubling.
If this GPU is pre-GCN with a serious performance gap to PS4, then this next Xbox will act like a boat anchor, dragging down the min-spec target for cross-platform next-generation games.
My guess is that the real reason for 8GB of memory is because this box is a DVR which actually runs “Windows” (which requires a GB or two or three of “overhead”), but like Windows RT (Windows on ARM) only exposes a non-desktop UI to the user.
There are a bunch of reasons they might ditch the real-time console OS, one being that if they don’t provide low level access to developers, that it might enable a faster refresh on backwards compatible hardware. In theory the developer just targets the box like it was a special DX11 [DirectX 11] “PC” with a few extra changes like hints for surfaces which should go in ESRAM, then on the next refresh hardware, all prior games just get better FPS or resolution or AA.
Of course if they do that, then it is just another PC, just lower performance, with all the latency baggage, and lack of low level magic which makes 1st party games stand out and sell the platform.
If this GPU is pre-GCN with a serious performance gap to PS4, then this next Xbox will act like a boat anchor, dragging down the min-spec target for cross-platform next-generation games.
My guess is that the real reason for 8GB of memory is because this box is a DVR which actually runs “Windows” (which requires a GB or two or three of “overhead”), but like Windows RT (Windows on ARM) only exposes a non-desktop UI to the user.
There are a bunch of reasons they might ditch the real-time console OS, one being that if they don’t provide low level access to developers, that it might enable a faster refresh on backwards compatible hardware. In theory the developer just targets the box like it was a special DX11 [DirectX 11] “PC” with a few extra changes like hints for surfaces which should go in ESRAM, then on the next refresh hardware, all prior games just get better FPS or resolution or AA.
Of course if they do that, then it is just another PC, just lower performance, with all the latency baggage, and lack of low level magic which makes 1st party games stand out and sell the platform.
He also let out a few information about his “personal project”,
My personal project is targeting 1080p@60fps with great AA on a 560ti which is a little slower than the rumored Orbis specs. There is no way my engine would hit that target on the rumored 720 specs. Ultimately on Orbis I guess devs target 1080p/30fps (with some motion blur) and leverage the lower latency OS stack and scan out at 60fps (double scan frames) to provide a really great lower-latency experience. Maybe the same title on 720 would render at 720p/30fps, and maybe Microsoft is dedicating a few CPU hardware threads to the GPU driver stack to remove the latency problem (assuming this is a “Windows” OS under the covers).
Some may not know who is Timothy Lottes, but he has established himself as one of the influential figures in console development arena after he created an anti-aliasing algorithm called Fast Approximate Anti-Aliasing (FXAA) under NVIDIA.
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----------
Just reveal the next xbox already!! we want to see the real specs and see how they compare.
Hmmmm interesting very nice thread!
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