Post: Prostitution
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07-05-2011, 12:38 AM
#1
This topic came to mind as I saw a program on TV, 2 female police officers(UK) pretending to be prostitutes then subsequently arresting the "customers". Surely this is extremely unfair? Opinions, please
07-28-2011, 11:33 AM
#92
TornadoCreator
A Storm Approaches.
The fact is, no-one has come up with a single reason why prostitution should be illegal.
This is a debate on the legality of an activity, why should that activity be banned? You can quote rape/assault statistics at me all day and I don't care. Why? Because rape and assault are already illegal. Why should PROSTITUTION be illegal. Claiming it should be illegal because someone might get raped is stupid, by that logic, everything should be illegal because someone might get raped doing it. The only reason rape is a real risk for prostitutes is because they can't go to the police afterwards and as such the attacker gets away with it. If it was legal and regulated this wouldn't happen. Hell, there would be security right there to stop it happening.
Come up with a reason why it should be banned that is actually a reason to ban it and not a reason to legalise it because so far, every complaint people have come up with could be easily stopped by legal regulations and laws inacted to protect prostitutes. As much as it's a TV show, 'Firefly' showed how this could work with the companions, and you know what, Inara was never raped.
This is a debate on the legality of an activity, why should that activity be banned? You can quote rape/assault statistics at me all day and I don't care. Why? Because rape and assault are already illegal. Why should PROSTITUTION be illegal. Claiming it should be illegal because someone might get raped is stupid, by that logic, everything should be illegal because someone might get raped doing it. The only reason rape is a real risk for prostitutes is because they can't go to the police afterwards and as such the attacker gets away with it. If it was legal and regulated this wouldn't happen. Hell, there would be security right there to stop it happening.
Come up with a reason why it should be banned that is actually a reason to ban it and not a reason to legalise it because so far, every complaint people have come up with could be easily stopped by legal regulations and laws inacted to protect prostitutes. As much as it's a TV show, 'Firefly' showed how this could work with the companions, and you know what, Inara was never raped.
07-29-2011, 04:54 AM
#93
PhantomRenegade
PS3 hacking is dead
Originally posted by TornadoCreator
The fact is, no-one has come up with a single reason why prostitution should be illegal.
This is a debate on the legality of an activity, why should that activity be banned? You can quote rape/assault statistics at me all day and I don't care. Why? Because rape and assault are already illegal. Why should PROSTITUTION be illegal. Claiming it should be illegal because someone might get raped is stupid, by that logic, everything should be illegal because someone might get raped doing it. The only reason rape is a real risk for prostitutes is because they can't go to the police afterwards and as such the attacker gets away with it. If it was legal and regulated this wouldn't happen. Hell, there would be security right there to stop it happening.
Come up with a reason why it should be banned that is actually a reason to ban it and not a reason to legalise it because so far, every complaint people have come up with could be easily stopped by legal regulations and laws inacted to protect prostitutes. As much as it's a TV show, 'Firefly' showed how this could work with the companions, and you know what, Inara was never raped.
This is a debate on the legality of an activity, why should that activity be banned? You can quote rape/assault statistics at me all day and I don't care. Why? Because rape and assault are already illegal. Why should PROSTITUTION be illegal. Claiming it should be illegal because someone might get raped is stupid, by that logic, everything should be illegal because someone might get raped doing it. The only reason rape is a real risk for prostitutes is because they can't go to the police afterwards and as such the attacker gets away with it. If it was legal and regulated this wouldn't happen. Hell, there would be security right there to stop it happening.
Come up with a reason why it should be banned that is actually a reason to ban it and not a reason to legalise it because so far, every complaint people have come up with could be easily stopped by legal regulations and laws inacted to protect prostitutes. As much as it's a TV show, 'Firefly' showed how this could work with the companions, and you know what, Inara was never raped.
quote me if you are replying.
Originally posted by another user
One reason it is argued that prostitution should not be legal in the United States could be posited on the grounds of human trafficking. If prostitution is made legal, the justice system would essentially condone the peddling of human flesh for profit. Symbolically, this rings with awful pangs and causes a great deal of consternation within individuals, given the Constiution's implications within American society. To legalize prostitution would undermine these ideals. Additionally, the legalization of prostitution would greatly benefit those who procure prostitutes and control their earnings. Unless it became a state sanctioned service (which opens up even more debate and greater implications), individuals who "control" those who engage in prostitution would be protected by the legal system and would be capable of acting without recompense because of the shield of the justice system.
Originally posted by another user
Legalization was supposed to get prostituted women off the street. Many women don’t want to register and undergo health checks, as required by law in certain countries legalizing prostitution, so legalization often drives them into street prostitution. And many women choose street prostitution because they want to avoid being controlled and exploited by the new sex "businessmen."
In the Netherlands, women in prostitution point out that legalization or decriminalization of the sex industry cannot erase the stigma of prostitution but, instead, makes women more vulnerable to abuse because they must register and lose anonymity. Thus, the majority of women in prostitution still choose to operate illegally and underground. Members of Parliament who originally supported the legalization of brothels on the grounds that this would liberate women are now seeing that legalization actually reinforces the oppression of women (Daley, 2001 : A1).
The argument that legalization was supposed to take the criminal elements out of sex businesses by strict regulation of the industry has failed. The real growth in prostitution in Australia since legalization took effect has been in the illegal sector. Since the onset of legalization in Victoria, brothels have tripled in number and expanded in size - the vast majority having no licenses but advertising and operating with impunity (Sullivan and Jeffreys : 2001). In New South Wales, brothels were decriminalized in 1995. In 1999, the numbers of brothels in Sydney had increased exponentially to 400-500. The vast majority have no license to operate. To end endemic police corruption, control of illegal prostitution was taken out of the hands of the police and placed in the hands of local councils and planning regulators. The council has neither the money nor the personnel to put investigators into brothels to flush out and prosecute illegal operators.
In the Netherlands, women in prostitution point out that legalization or decriminalization of the sex industry cannot erase the stigma of prostitution but, instead, makes women more vulnerable to abuse because they must register and lose anonymity. Thus, the majority of women in prostitution still choose to operate illegally and underground. Members of Parliament who originally supported the legalization of brothels on the grounds that this would liberate women are now seeing that legalization actually reinforces the oppression of women (Daley, 2001 : A1).
The argument that legalization was supposed to take the criminal elements out of sex businesses by strict regulation of the industry has failed. The real growth in prostitution in Australia since legalization took effect has been in the illegal sector. Since the onset of legalization in Victoria, brothels have tripled in number and expanded in size - the vast majority having no licenses but advertising and operating with impunity (Sullivan and Jeffreys : 2001). In New South Wales, brothels were decriminalized in 1995. In 1999, the numbers of brothels in Sydney had increased exponentially to 400-500. The vast majority have no license to operate. To end endemic police corruption, control of illegal prostitution was taken out of the hands of the police and placed in the hands of local councils and planning regulators. The council has neither the money nor the personnel to put investigators into brothels to flush out and prosecute illegal operators.
if you believe in the legalization of prostitution, you believe in human trafficking...
The following user groaned PhantomRenegade for this awful post:
07-29-2011, 05:22 AM
#94
ClutchLikeBron
Do a barrel roll!
07-29-2011, 09:48 AM
#95
TornadoCreator
A Storm Approaches.
Originally posted by PhantomRenegade
if you believe in the legalization of prostitution, you believe in human trafficking...
This is an arrogant and insulting response which shows you've not considered anyone elses posts and that you're concerned only in spouting retoric. You cannot justify that position, so I won't even bother asking, I say simple this. Please leave this debate, you do not have a worthwhile thing to contribute, your clear preconceptions on prostitution means you're not prepared to consider other societal methods or anything past sensationalism.
07-29-2011, 03:40 PM
#96
PhantomRenegade
PS3 hacking is dead
Originally posted by TornadoCreator
This is an arrogant and insulting response which shows you've not considered anyone elses posts and that you're concerned only in spouting retoric. You cannot justify that position, so I won't even bother asking, I say simple this. Please leave this debate, you do not have a worthwhile thing to contribute, your clear preconceptions on prostitution means you're not prepared to consider other societal methods or anything past sensationalism.
thanks for not challanging any direct quotes of all the paragraphs i have written in my last two posts and just attacking me instead, the one who changes the topic and attacks the other person is the one who can't hold water.
07-29-2011, 05:58 PM
#97
TornadoCreator
A Storm Approaches.
Originally posted by PhantomRenegade
thanks for not challanging any direct quotes of all the paragraphs i have written in my last two posts and just attacking me instead, the one who changes the topic and attacks the other person is the one who can't hold water.
I didn't respond directly to the paragraphs because I disagree with the premise that prostitution is analagous to people trafficking. That's a blickered and fear-mongering, as well as entirely untruthful description of prostitution. This makes your entire argument a strawman and thus logically fallacial. If you want to debate this issue, debate why PROSTITUTION should or should not be legal, not why human trafficking is bad.
I will also point out, I haven't 'attacked' you, don't be so bloody melodramatic. All I did is state that your response was arrogant and insulting which it was, and a clear disreguard of the other posts given here, which it is. To attack you, in the debate sense, would be to draw conclusions from personal insults ie. you're a fat ugly fool therefore you're wrong about ecconomics. This would be a personal attack and thus an 'ad hominem', what I did is called 'not sugarcoating my opinion' when I described the response and the indications it gave or your position and demeanour. If you don't like that, perhaps you should write posts with less arrogant postering and strawman fallacies and instead consider and counter peoples arguments... here's mine in case you missed it.
Prostitution should be legal because it is nothing more than the trade of a service. It is perfectly legal to have sex, it's legal to sell a service, so why is it illegal to sell the service of having sex. It's not illegal to sell the service of giving someone a massage, it's not illegal to sell the service of cleaning someones house, why should it be illegal to sell the service of having sexual intercourse, especially when if both individuals are paid to have sex while a third party watches and films them, that, while considerably more public and published for general consumption is legal... it's called porn.
There is no reason why Prostitution should be illegal as it violates someones right to free enterprise, the right to spend ones own money as they like and the rights for people to enter into private contracts and agreements. Like I say, if two people have sex and one pays the other it's illegal, if two people have sex and a third person sitting in the wardrobe with a video camera pays them both, it's not only legal it's big business. This is bizarre and nonsensical.
In light of my reasoning, explain why prostitution should be illegal, and without spouting shit about "human trafficking" as well.
---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 PM ----------
Originally posted by ClutchLikeBron
Should be legal, but I would still frown upon it.
That's fine. I would frown upon a grown man taking a shit in an adult diaper for fun because he thinks the sound it makes is just delightful... but if he's doing it in his own home where I can't see, hear or more to the point smell him, who cares. Quite frankly, if it doesn't hurt anyone (except people who actively want to be hurt, you know how fetishes are), then it should be legal, whether I agree with it or not. That's always been my opinion.
07-29-2011, 06:00 PM
#98
PsYcHoSiS
Eatin' poopy
Originally posted by TornadoCreator
I didn't respond directly to the paragraphs because I disagree with the premise that prostitution is analagous to people trafficking. That's a blickered and fear-mongering, as well as entirely untruthful description of prostitution. This makes your entire argument a strawman and thus logically fallacial. If you want to debate this issue, debate why PROSTITUTION should or should not be legal, not why human trafficking is bad.
I will also point out, I haven't 'attacked' you, don't be so bloody melodramatic. All I did is state that your response was arrogant and insulting which it was, and a clear disreguard of the other posts given here, which it is. To attack you, in the debate sense, would be to draw conclusions from personal insults ie. you're a fat ugly fool therefore you're wrong about ecconomics. This would be a personal attack and thus an 'ad hominem', what I did is called 'not sugarcoating my opinion' when I described the response and the indications it gave or your position and demeanour. If you don't like that, perhaps you should write posts with less arrogant postering and strawman fallacies and instead consider and counter peoples arguments... here's mine in case you missed it.
Prostitution should be legal because it is nothing more than the trade of a service. It is perfectly legal to have sex, it's legal to sell a service, so why is it illegal to sell the service of having sex. It's not illegal to sell the service of giving someone a massage, it's not illegal to sell the service of cleaning someones house, why should it be illegal to sell the service of having sexual intercourse, especially when if both individuals are paid to have sex while a third party watches and films them, that, while considerably more public and published for general consumption is legal... it's called porn.
There is no reason why Prostitution should be illegal as it violates someones right to free enterprise, the right to spend ones own money as they like and the rights for people to enter into private contracts and agreements. Like I say, if two people have sex and one pays the other it's illegal, if two people have sex and a third person sitting in the wardrobe with a video camera pays them both, it's not only legal it's big business. This is bizarre and nonsensical.
In light of my reasoning, explain why prostitution should be illegal, and without spouting shit about "human trafficking" as well.
---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 PM ----------
That's fine. I would frown upon a grown man taking a shit in an adult diaper for fun because he thinks the sound it makes is just delightful... but if he's doing it in his own home where I can't see, hear or more to the point smell him, who cares. Quite frankly, if it doesn't hurt anyone (except people who actively want to be hurt, you know how fetishes are), then it should be legal, whether I agree with it or not. That's always been my opinion.
I will also point out, I haven't 'attacked' you, don't be so bloody melodramatic. All I did is state that your response was arrogant and insulting which it was, and a clear disreguard of the other posts given here, which it is. To attack you, in the debate sense, would be to draw conclusions from personal insults ie. you're a fat ugly fool therefore you're wrong about ecconomics. This would be a personal attack and thus an 'ad hominem', what I did is called 'not sugarcoating my opinion' when I described the response and the indications it gave or your position and demeanour. If you don't like that, perhaps you should write posts with less arrogant postering and strawman fallacies and instead consider and counter peoples arguments... here's mine in case you missed it.
Prostitution should be legal because it is nothing more than the trade of a service. It is perfectly legal to have sex, it's legal to sell a service, so why is it illegal to sell the service of having sex. It's not illegal to sell the service of giving someone a massage, it's not illegal to sell the service of cleaning someones house, why should it be illegal to sell the service of having sexual intercourse, especially when if both individuals are paid to have sex while a third party watches and films them, that, while considerably more public and published for general consumption is legal... it's called porn.
There is no reason why Prostitution should be illegal as it violates someones right to free enterprise, the right to spend ones own money as they like and the rights for people to enter into private contracts and agreements. Like I say, if two people have sex and one pays the other it's illegal, if two people have sex and a third person sitting in the wardrobe with a video camera pays them both, it's not only legal it's big business. This is bizarre and nonsensical.
In light of my reasoning, explain why prostitution should be illegal, and without spouting shit about "human trafficking" as well.
---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 PM ----------
That's fine. I would frown upon a grown man taking a shit in an adult diaper for fun because he thinks the sound it makes is just delightful... but if he's doing it in his own home where I can't see, hear or more to the point smell him, who cares. Quite frankly, if it doesn't hurt anyone (except people who actively want to be hurt, you know how fetishes are), then it should be legal, whether I agree with it or not. That's always been my opinion.
No offense.. Really, but almost ALL of your post are a tl;dr to me.. :p
However I respect your intelligence and understand sometimes you need to make a long comment to fully express what you are thinking.
07-29-2011, 06:01 PM
#99
Booshykins
Tech Enthusiast
Originally posted by PhantomRenegade
thanks for not challanging any direct quotes of all the paragraphs i have written in my last two posts and just attacking me instead, the one who changes the topic and attacks the other person is the one who can't hold water.
Explain how agreeing that an individual has the right to willingly sell sexual services to other people also means I also agree that human trafficking should be allowed as well.
You do realize that being a sex slave is having to unwillingly provide sexual favors without getting paid, right? The only people who get paid in human trafficking are the slave traders. Not to mention these people (the sex slaves) are abused, where-as a self-managed prostitute is not. Unless they have some abusive boyfriend or something, but that's not necessarily related to their choice to sell themselves.
A willing prostitute is very different than a prostitute with an abusive boyfriend that forces them into it, which I don't really agree with. It should be legal to sell yourself on your own terms, and if there is an underlying force (unless it's, let's say, a brothel, and you're willingly there), then that force should be the one that the blame should fall upon.
If you can't provide a logical and evidential reason that those two things are related, then I have to agree that TornadoCreator is right.
07-29-2011, 10:53 PM
#100
Booshykins
Tech Enthusiast
Originally posted by PhantomRenegade
google what pimping is.
---------- Post added at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------
google pimping
---------- Post added at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------
google pimping
Re-read my post. It completely renders your argument IR********. (Are you serious, guys? You've censored that now, too? Way to make things a lot more difficult for no reason. This has nothing to do with this discussion, btw, I'm referring to the fact that they've censored a commonly used and harmless word because they're butthurt about some douchebag.) I've addressed this already.
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