Post: Gay Marriage
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09-21-2011, 12:19 PM
#1
iMLB
Guest
I do, what have they done to us to make them not be able to marry?
There are literally hundreds of reasons to support gay marriage. Or, if you consider each and every homosexual out there who is legally denied his or her basic rights, millions. But it seems to me that the following five are irrefutable.
1. The kids come out just fine.
We all have different perspectives on the best way to raise our children. But it seems outrageous to me that anybody with the right body parts --murderers, drug addicts, even convicted child molesters-- can get married and have children, while same sex couples who have done nothing wrong cannot. If, as those who support a gay marriage ban claim, children are such an important part of the equation, why are they focusing their efforts on people who make just as effective parents as anybody else? Why not focus on the people who really do harm to their children?
"On measures of psychosocial well-being, school functioning, and romantic relationships and behaviors, teens with same-sex parents are as well adjusted as their peers with opposite-sex parents. A more important predictor of teens' psychological and social adjustment is the quality of the relationships they have with their parents." You must login or register to view this content..
Good parenting is about love, stability, and responsibly. Not gender.
2. Same sex relationships are just as natural as hetero relationships.
One of the arguments against same sex marriage that infuriates the gay community is the implication that these sorts of relationships are unnatural. They're not. Homosexuality has been a part of mankind since we walked the planet. And not just us-- some members of most animal species show a homosexual preference, as well. A same-sex relationship is perfectly natural, perfectly normal, and just as worthy of acknowledgement as a hetero relationship.
Take a look at most of the gay and lesbian themed internet dating websites out there, for instance. Do you see a list of unstable sexual degenerates? No. Mostly, you see people just like any heterosexual, looking for just what any heterosexual is looking for: a lifetime partner.
3. Marriage has never been static, anyway.
Those in favor of banning gay marriage tend to use a lot of words like "tradition" and "sanctity." But the definition of marriage has been in constant flux since its inception. At its beginnings, marriage was often about the exchange of property or even about creating peace between two countries. In many places and in many times, marriage was between several people, or wasn't even recognized by law, or was purchased only with large amounts of money. And as early as the 1960's and 70's, the right to marry was denied to interracial couples and the mentally handicapped. Is that what "tradition" looks like to you? How can people argue that allowing gays to marry is against the tradition of marriage, when there is no tradition of marriage. It's an institution which is constantly in flux.
4. Denying gays rights is discrimination.
In the United States, some polls have shown that while 75% of people support the idea of gay rights in general, more than 50% --including some of those who consider themselves gay-rights supporters--are against gay marriage. Instead, those people support the idea of "separate but equal" rights. And while granting those rights is a step in the right direction, not allowing gay couples the full rights of straight couples automatically classifies them as second-class citizens.
Think back to your high school history classes. Does "separate but equal" sound familiar? That's because it comes straight from the Jim Crow laws in the US in the first part of the 20th century, which required blacks to be physically segregated from whites. How fair does that sound today? Separate but equal is not equal. It's separate, it's discrimination, and it's a violation of a gay couple's rights.
5. No church should determine legal policy.
Now, I think this is the most important argument of them all. Almost everybody who is truly against gay marriage is against it for religious reasons. But unless you live in the Vatican, religion and law are --and should be-- two separate things. The rights of marriage are something given by the state, not the church.
It's true that parts of the Christian bible and other religious texts speak out against homosexuality. But what has that to do with the legal institution of marriage? The Bible, the Koran, the Torah, and all other religious tomes have their place in the world. But that place is not where a country's laws are made.
We all have our own opinions about what's right and what's not. But "live and let live" isn't such a bad motto to have. The truth is, there's no real reason to get worked up about the idea gay marriage. It's been legal in places like Spain for years with absolutely no detriment to society or to the institution of marriage. What it has done is grant perfectly deserving people the same rights as everybody else-- regardless of what gender of person they prefer to have sex with.
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10-01-2011, 01:34 AM
#218
dapreacher23
Climbing up the ladder
Originally posted by FSA
Think they should be legalized?
I do, what have they done to us to make them not be able to marry?
There are literally hundreds of reasons to support gay marriage. Or, if you consider each and every homosexual out there who is legally denied his or her basic rights, millions. But it seems to me that the following five are irrefutable.
1. The kids come out just fine.
We all have different perspectives on the best way to raise our children. But it seems outrageous to me that anybody with the right body parts --murderers, drug addicts, even convicted child molesters-- can get married and have children, while same sex couples who have done nothing wrong cannot. If, as those who support a gay marriage ban claim, children are such an important part of the equation, why are they focusing their efforts on people who make just as effective parents as anybody else? Why not focus on the people who really do harm to their children?
"On measures of psychosocial well-being, school functioning, and romantic relationships and behaviors, teens with same-sex parents are as well adjusted as their peers with opposite-sex parents. A more important predictor of teens' psychological and social adjustment is the quality of the relationships they have with their parents." You must login or register to view this content..
Good parenting is about love, stability, and responsibly. Not gender.
2. Same sex relationships are just as natural as hetero relationships.
One of the arguments against same sex marriage that infuriates the gay community is the implication that these sorts of relationships are unnatural. They're not. Homosexuality has been a part of mankind since we walked the planet. And not just us-- some members of most animal species show a homosexual preference, as well. A same-sex relationship is perfectly natural, perfectly normal, and just as worthy of acknowledgement as a hetero relationship.
Take a look at most of the gay and lesbian themed internet dating websites out there, for instance. Do you see a list of unstable sexual degenerates? No. Mostly, you see people just like any heterosexual, looking for just what any heterosexual is looking for: a lifetime partner.
3. Marriage has never been static, anyway.
Those in favor of banning gay marriage tend to use a lot of words like "tradition" and "sanctity." But the definition of marriage has been in constant flux since its inception. At its beginnings, marriage was often about the exchange of property or even about creating peace between two countries. In many places and in many times, marriage was between several people, or wasn't even recognized by law, or was purchased only with large amounts of money. And as early as the 1960's and 70's, the right to marry was denied to interracial couples and the mentally handicapped. Is that what "tradition" looks like to you? How can people argue that allowing gays to marry is against the tradition of marriage, when there is no tradition of marriage. It's an institution which is constantly in flux.
4. Denying gays rights is discrimination.
In the United States, some polls have shown that while 75% of people support the idea of gay rights in general, more than 50% --including some of those who consider themselves gay-rights supporters--are against gay marriage. Instead, those people support the idea of "separate but equal" rights. And while granting those rights is a step in the right direction, not allowing gay couples the full rights of straight couples automatically classifies them as second-class citizens.
Think back to your high school history classes. Does "separate but equal" sound familiar? That's because it comes straight from the Jim Crow laws in the US in the first part of the 20th century, which required blacks to be physically segregated from whites. How fair does that sound today? Separate but equal is not equal. It's separate, it's discrimination, and it's a violation of a gay couple's rights.
5. No church should determine legal policy.
Now, I think this is the most important argument of them all. Almost everybody who is truly against gay marriage is against it for religious reasons. But unless you live in the Vatican, religion and law are --and should be-- two separate things. The rights of marriage are something given by the state, not the church.
It's true that parts of the Christian bible and other religious texts speak out against homosexuality. But what has that to do with the legal institution of marriage? The Bible, the Koran, the Torah, and all other religious tomes have their place in the world. But that place is not where a country's laws are made.
We all have our own opinions about what's right and what's not. But "live and let live" isn't such a bad motto to have. The truth is, there's no real reason to get worked up about the idea gay marriage. It's been legal in places like Spain for years with absolutely no detriment to society or to the institution of marriage. What it has done is grant perfectly deserving people the same rights as everybody else-- regardless of what gender of person they prefer to have sex with.
I do, what have they done to us to make them not be able to marry?
There are literally hundreds of reasons to support gay marriage. Or, if you consider each and every homosexual out there who is legally denied his or her basic rights, millions. But it seems to me that the following five are irrefutable.
1. The kids come out just fine.
We all have different perspectives on the best way to raise our children. But it seems outrageous to me that anybody with the right body parts --murderers, drug addicts, even convicted child molesters-- can get married and have children, while same sex couples who have done nothing wrong cannot. If, as those who support a gay marriage ban claim, children are such an important part of the equation, why are they focusing their efforts on people who make just as effective parents as anybody else? Why not focus on the people who really do harm to their children?
"On measures of psychosocial well-being, school functioning, and romantic relationships and behaviors, teens with same-sex parents are as well adjusted as their peers with opposite-sex parents. A more important predictor of teens' psychological and social adjustment is the quality of the relationships they have with their parents." You must login or register to view this content..
Good parenting is about love, stability, and responsibly. Not gender.
2. Same sex relationships are just as natural as hetero relationships.
One of the arguments against same sex marriage that infuriates the gay community is the implication that these sorts of relationships are unnatural. They're not. Homosexuality has been a part of mankind since we walked the planet. And not just us-- some members of most animal species show a homosexual preference, as well. A same-sex relationship is perfectly natural, perfectly normal, and just as worthy of acknowledgement as a hetero relationship.
Take a look at most of the gay and lesbian themed internet dating websites out there, for instance. Do you see a list of unstable sexual degenerates? No. Mostly, you see people just like any heterosexual, looking for just what any heterosexual is looking for: a lifetime partner.
3. Marriage has never been static, anyway.
Those in favor of banning gay marriage tend to use a lot of words like "tradition" and "sanctity." But the definition of marriage has been in constant flux since its inception. At its beginnings, marriage was often about the exchange of property or even about creating peace between two countries. In many places and in many times, marriage was between several people, or wasn't even recognized by law, or was purchased only with large amounts of money. And as early as the 1960's and 70's, the right to marry was denied to interracial couples and the mentally handicapped. Is that what "tradition" looks like to you? How can people argue that allowing gays to marry is against the tradition of marriage, when there is no tradition of marriage. It's an institution which is constantly in flux.
4. Denying gays rights is discrimination.
In the United States, some polls have shown that while 75% of people support the idea of gay rights in general, more than 50% --including some of those who consider themselves gay-rights supporters--are against gay marriage. Instead, those people support the idea of "separate but equal" rights. And while granting those rights is a step in the right direction, not allowing gay couples the full rights of straight couples automatically classifies them as second-class citizens.
Think back to your high school history classes. Does "separate but equal" sound familiar? That's because it comes straight from the Jim Crow laws in the US in the first part of the 20th century, which required blacks to be physically segregated from whites. How fair does that sound today? Separate but equal is not equal. It's separate, it's discrimination, and it's a violation of a gay couple's rights.
5. No church should determine legal policy.
Now, I think this is the most important argument of them all. Almost everybody who is truly against gay marriage is against it for religious reasons. But unless you live in the Vatican, religion and law are --and should be-- two separate things. The rights of marriage are something given by the state, not the church.
It's true that parts of the Christian bible and other religious texts speak out against homosexuality. But what has that to do with the legal institution of marriage? The Bible, the Koran, the Torah, and all other religious tomes have their place in the world. But that place is not where a country's laws are made.
We all have our own opinions about what's right and what's not. But "live and let live" isn't such a bad motto to have. The truth is, there's no real reason to get worked up about the idea gay marriage. It's been legal in places like Spain for years with absolutely no detriment to society or to the institution of marriage. What it has done is grant perfectly deserving people the same rights as everybody else-- regardless of what gender of person they prefer to have sex with.
It should be banned because divorce rate is higher than normal marriages, most of the kids dont turn out fine think about a young girl with two dads? doesnt she need a mother to show her woman things? How does she learn? And actually idk where you got the study but the church has given the rules not the state where did the founding fathers get the laws from? Think about this what rights are being taken away?
10-01-2011, 01:43 AM
#219
RaichuHD
.jpg
Originally posted by dapreacher23
It should be banned because divorce rate is higher than normal marriages, most of the kids dont turn out fine think about a young girl with two dads? doesnt she need a mother to show her woman things? How does she learn? And actually idk where you got the study but the church has given the rules not the state where did the founding fathers get the laws from? Think about this what rights are being taken away?
Actually, heterosexual marriages are more likely to be divorced than homosexual civil partnerships. Marriage should be done away with. Christians have actually ruined it already with divorcing (divorcing being a thing you couldn't do originally)
Thousands of people grow up to be absolutely fine with no mother/ father so I ask how another mother or father hurt?
Seriously? You don't know which rights are denied daily to gay people? Don't post on a topic you're so ignorant about
10-01-2011, 03:17 AM
#220
iMLB
Guest
Originally posted by RaichuHD
Actually, heterosexual marriages are more likely to be divorced than homosexual civil partnerships. Marriage should be done away with. Christians have actually ruined it already with divorcing (divorcing being a thing you couldn't do originally)
Thousands of people grow up to be absolutely fine with no mother/ father so I ask how another mother or father hurt?
Seriously? You don't know which rights are denied daily to gay people? Don't post on a topic you're so ignorant about
Thousands of people grow up to be absolutely fine with no mother/ father so I ask how another mother or father hurt?
Seriously? You don't know which rights are denied daily to gay people? Don't post on a topic you're so ignorant about
10-01-2011, 05:01 AM
#221
Just4Hax
"I will speak ill of
Originally posted by dapreacher23
It should be banned because divorce rate is higher than normal marriages
Actually, that's absolutely wrong.
Originally posted by another user
most of the kids dont turn out fine think about a young girl with two dads? doesnt she need a mother to show her woman things? How does she learn?
We're not talking adoption, we're talking marriage.
Originally posted by another user
And actually idk where you got the study but the church has given the rules not the state where did the founding fathers get the laws from?
LMFAO. Good Ol' brainwashing at its finest. The founding fathers were deists my friend, they came from the age of the enlightenment in fact.
Then again, we should listen to them correct? So how about the first amendment?
Originally posted by another user
Think about this what rights are being taken away?
... your the one saying they shouldn't have rights!!!
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10-01-2011, 12:28 PM
#222
TornadoCreator
A Storm Approaches.
Gay people should be allowed to marry because they should be allowed the same freedoms and liberties as anyone else. If you disagree, you are a bigotted fool who I hold no respect for and the modern day equivalent of those that opposed black rights and womens rights. People in the future will look upon anti-gay movements the same way they look at racism today. Gay rights should be absolute, so much so that they shouldn't be needed. Two people can get married, gender and sexuality should not even be considered. This is not a debate, if you disagree, YOU ARE WRONG!
</thread>
</thread>
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10-01-2011, 04:03 PM
#223
iMLB
Guest
Originally posted by TornadoCreator
Gay people should be allowed to marry because they should be allowed the same freedoms and liberties as anyone else. If you disagree, you are a bigotted fool who I hold no respect for and the modern day equivalent of those that opposed black rights and womens rights. People in the future will look upon anti-gay movements the same way they look at racism today. Gay rights should be absolute, so much so that they shouldn't be needed. Two people can get married, gender and sexuality should not even be considered. This is not a debate, if you disagree, YOU ARE WRONG!
</thread>
</thread>
10-07-2011, 04:30 AM
#225
deathkid1212
I’m too L33T
Originally posted by FSA
Think they should be legalized?
I do, what have they done to us to make them not be able to marry?
There are literally hundreds of reasons to support gay marriage. Or, if you consider each and every homosexual out there who is legally denied his or her basic rights, millions. But it seems to me that the following five are irrefutable.
1. The kids come out just fine.
We all have different perspectives on the best way to raise our children. But it seems outrageous to me that anybody with the right body parts --murderers, drug addicts, even convicted child molesters-- can get married and have children, while same sex couples who have done nothing wrong cannot. If, as those who support a gay marriage ban claim, children are such an important part of the equation, why are they focusing their efforts on people who make just as effective parents as anybody else? Why not focus on the people who really do harm to their children?
"On measures of psychosocial well-being, school functioning, and romantic relationships and behaviors, teens with same-sex parents are as well adjusted as their peers with opposite-sex parents. A more important predictor of teens' psychological and social adjustment is the quality of the relationships they have with their parents." You must login or register to view this content..
Good parenting is about love, stability, and responsibly. Not gender.
2. Same sex relationships are just as natural as hetero relationships.
One of the arguments against same sex marriage that infuriates the gay community is the implication that these sorts of relationships are unnatural. They're not. Homosexuality has been a part of mankind since we walked the planet. And not just us-- some members of most animal species show a homosexual preference, as well. A same-sex relationship is perfectly natural, perfectly normal, and just as worthy of acknowledgement as a hetero relationship.
Take a look at most of the gay and lesbian themed internet dating websites out there, for instance. Do you see a list of unstable sexual degenerates? No. Mostly, you see people just like any heterosexual, looking for just what any heterosexual is looking for: a lifetime partner.
3. Marriage has never been static, anyway.
Those in favor of banning gay marriage tend to use a lot of words like "tradition" and "sanctity." But the definition of marriage has been in constant flux since its inception. At its beginnings, marriage was often about the exchange of property or even about creating peace between two countries. In many places and in many times, marriage was between several people, or wasn't even recognized by law, or was purchased only with large amounts of money. And as early as the 1960's and 70's, the right to marry was denied to interracial couples and the mentally handicapped. Is that what "tradition" looks like to you? How can people argue that allowing gays to marry is against the tradition of marriage, when there is no tradition of marriage. It's an institution which is constantly in flux.
4. Denying gays rights is discrimination.
In the United States, some polls have shown that while 75% of people support the idea of gay rights in general, more than 50% --including some of those who consider themselves gay-rights supporters--are against gay marriage. Instead, those people support the idea of "separate but equal" rights. And while granting those rights is a step in the right direction, not allowing gay couples the full rights of straight couples automatically classifies them as second-class citizens.
Think back to your high school history classes. Does "separate but equal" sound familiar? That's because it comes straight from the Jim Crow laws in the US in the first part of the 20th century, which required blacks to be physically segregated from whites. How fair does that sound today? Separate but equal is not equal. It's separate, it's discrimination, and it's a violation of a gay couple's rights.
5. No church should determine legal policy.
Now, I think this is the most important argument of them all. Almost everybody who is truly against gay marriage is against it for religious reasons. But unless you live in the Vatican, religion and law are --and should be-- two separate things. The rights of marriage are something given by the state, not the church.
It's true that parts of the Christian bible and other religious texts speak out against homosexuality. But what has that to do with the legal institution of marriage? The Bible, the Koran, the Torah, and all other religious tomes have their place in the world. But that place is not where a country's laws are made.
We all have our own opinions about what's right and what's not. But "live and let live" isn't such a bad motto to have. The truth is, there's no real reason to get worked up about the idea gay marriage. It's been legal in places like Spain for years with absolutely no detriment to society or to the institution of marriage. What it has done is grant perfectly deserving people the same rights as everybody else-- regardless of what gender of person they prefer to have sex with.
I do, what have they done to us to make them not be able to marry?
There are literally hundreds of reasons to support gay marriage. Or, if you consider each and every homosexual out there who is legally denied his or her basic rights, millions. But it seems to me that the following five are irrefutable.
1. The kids come out just fine.
We all have different perspectives on the best way to raise our children. But it seems outrageous to me that anybody with the right body parts --murderers, drug addicts, even convicted child molesters-- can get married and have children, while same sex couples who have done nothing wrong cannot. If, as those who support a gay marriage ban claim, children are such an important part of the equation, why are they focusing their efforts on people who make just as effective parents as anybody else? Why not focus on the people who really do harm to their children?
"On measures of psychosocial well-being, school functioning, and romantic relationships and behaviors, teens with same-sex parents are as well adjusted as their peers with opposite-sex parents. A more important predictor of teens' psychological and social adjustment is the quality of the relationships they have with their parents." You must login or register to view this content..
Good parenting is about love, stability, and responsibly. Not gender.
2. Same sex relationships are just as natural as hetero relationships.
One of the arguments against same sex marriage that infuriates the gay community is the implication that these sorts of relationships are unnatural. They're not. Homosexuality has been a part of mankind since we walked the planet. And not just us-- some members of most animal species show a homosexual preference, as well. A same-sex relationship is perfectly natural, perfectly normal, and just as worthy of acknowledgement as a hetero relationship.
Take a look at most of the gay and lesbian themed internet dating websites out there, for instance. Do you see a list of unstable sexual degenerates? No. Mostly, you see people just like any heterosexual, looking for just what any heterosexual is looking for: a lifetime partner.
3. Marriage has never been static, anyway.
Those in favor of banning gay marriage tend to use a lot of words like "tradition" and "sanctity." But the definition of marriage has been in constant flux since its inception. At its beginnings, marriage was often about the exchange of property or even about creating peace between two countries. In many places and in many times, marriage was between several people, or wasn't even recognized by law, or was purchased only with large amounts of money. And as early as the 1960's and 70's, the right to marry was denied to interracial couples and the mentally handicapped. Is that what "tradition" looks like to you? How can people argue that allowing gays to marry is against the tradition of marriage, when there is no tradition of marriage. It's an institution which is constantly in flux.
4. Denying gays rights is discrimination.
In the United States, some polls have shown that while 75% of people support the idea of gay rights in general, more than 50% --including some of those who consider themselves gay-rights supporters--are against gay marriage. Instead, those people support the idea of "separate but equal" rights. And while granting those rights is a step in the right direction, not allowing gay couples the full rights of straight couples automatically classifies them as second-class citizens.
Think back to your high school history classes. Does "separate but equal" sound familiar? That's because it comes straight from the Jim Crow laws in the US in the first part of the 20th century, which required blacks to be physically segregated from whites. How fair does that sound today? Separate but equal is not equal. It's separate, it's discrimination, and it's a violation of a gay couple's rights.
5. No church should determine legal policy.
Now, I think this is the most important argument of them all. Almost everybody who is truly against gay marriage is against it for religious reasons. But unless you live in the Vatican, religion and law are --and should be-- two separate things. The rights of marriage are something given by the state, not the church.
It's true that parts of the Christian bible and other religious texts speak out against homosexuality. But what has that to do with the legal institution of marriage? The Bible, the Koran, the Torah, and all other religious tomes have their place in the world. But that place is not where a country's laws are made.
We all have our own opinions about what's right and what's not. But "live and let live" isn't such a bad motto to have. The truth is, there's no real reason to get worked up about the idea gay marriage. It's been legal in places like Spain for years with absolutely no detriment to society or to the institution of marriage. What it has done is grant perfectly deserving people the same rights as everybody else-- regardless of what gender of person they prefer to have sex with.
Gay people should not be able to "Marry" because marriage was created by religion with the rules following the religion. If you redefine "marriage" as just a relationship then it would be completely fine.
10-07-2011, 08:13 AM
#226
TornadoCreator
A Storm Approaches.
Originally posted by deathkid1212
Gay people should not be able to "Marry" because marriage was created by religion with the rules following the religion. If you redefine "marriage" as just a relationship then it would be completely fine.
Actually, 'marriage' was based of the pagan ritual of 'handfasting' which was to claim to be linked to another in a matter of loving betrothal and was performed for both heterosexual and homosexual couples as well as for non-sexual bonds who wished to celebrate their closeness, such as devoted friends or siblings.
As for the specifics of Marriage itself, it wasn't actually a religious ceremony at first but a legal ceremony. It was created by the royal and noble families of Europe during pre-medieval times as a way of reassuring a man that his children where is own as marriage was a promise of sexual exclusivity and infidelity could be punished as a crime.
Then there's the consideration that many religion have no problem with gay people marrying, Pentecostal churches for example would happily marry gay people if they could, so why should they not be allowed to as if follows the rules of their religion. Surely each church should be allowed to accept couples and turn couples away as they wish, and as such no government intervention is needed or wanted at all. Gay marriage should be legal, if a specific church is anti-gay they can refuse to marry gay people... chances are the gay couple wouldn't be going to an anti-gay church anyway would they.
Marriage is neither a religious ceremony nor is it a relationship. It's a contract between to people which legally defines each other as family and each others next of kin, there is NO reason at all for stopping gay people from engaging in this contract any more than there's a reason from stopping them owning property or signing a business contract. You're either ignorant of the details or marriage or a pathetic homophobe making excuses to exclude gay people, kindly think before posting, this is twice I've responded to you with "think before posting" as my overall message, please actually start doing it.
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