(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); As people are likely well aware if they've read many of my posts, I am British and while I'm proud of the social ideals of my country they're far from perfect. There are many issues with the UK and one of the worst is that it's constantly emulating USA, in all the worst ways. I feel national pride is stupid, being proud of your country for no reason other than you being born there is pathetic. Have pride in your country for things it does that you actively support, for it's growth and development, not for it's mere existence.

So... with that it would be fair to say I hate the United States of America, but I don't far from it. I both love and hate USA, it's a country that brings both the best and the worst out in humanity and depending on my mood I have two ways of considering USA

The first, fuelled by my anger is the most common view people see from me, and is the one I feel the strongest. It's far from a good view and any honest American should be able to accept what I'm going to say...

USA is a self-absorbed country filled with arrogant people convinced their country is "number 1" when it's anything but. They're generally uneducated, racist, extremely homophobic and the further south and further inland you go the more stupid, racist and homophobic they get. They seem to think communism is evil, even though most of them have no idea what it is. They seem to thing atheism is evil, even though most of them have no idea what it is. All the working class vote Republican even though that party clearly stabs the poor in the back whilst propping up the rich, saying they don't want to support "leeches" when in reality the social programs they oppose would benefit them and their families the most. They're ignorant of foreign cultures and customs, obsessed with an isolating USA only mentality and they're extremely xenophobic. They prop up sports like Basketball, Baseball and NFL which no-one outside USA gives a shit about whilst ignoring international sports like Football and Rugby which they simply don't understand, yet they make out that sports is one of the most important aspect of American culture. They disrespect other peoples media, expecting us to buy Hollywood blockbusters but remaking every foreign film and TV show because they're convinced they can do them better, which they never do. To top it all off, they're ridiculously, even offensively Christian saying things like "God bless America" as if they're the only people in the world who are worth considering. They're ridiculously ignorant, they deny evolution, refuse sex education and insist on inserting God into everything, then they act like God has always been there, such as on their money, in their pledge etc. and become deeply offended at the mere concept of removing this religiosity. They treat Atheists like they're cultists and treat other religions like they're delusional yet expect us to always respect Jesus. Lastly USA is filled with liars. They have universities devoted to "creation science", psychics, alternative medicine and endless superstitions and conspiracy theories. Everyone's opinion is expected to be treated as though it's "equal" and science if given no respect, unless your opinion is "liberal" at which point your ignored and labelled anti-American. Still this doesn't stop people posing as scientists to support something, for political or financial gain, especially Republicans and their mouth-piece Fox News. In general American scientists are unreliable, their politicians are always scapegoats and their news-media is purposefully dishonest to the point of propaganda. The people are wilfully ignorant and act with a sickening sense of entitlement while having little to no compassion for anyone else, often thinking only for themselves, with a culture based entirely on greed and the profit motive.

This is an accurate description of USA, and if you disagree, you're simply wrong... I'm sorry if that's upsetting but it's true. But it doesn't have to be like this, this is nothing more than a regurgitation of my frustrations. This is how I see USA in the back of my mind, and why I feel so strongly about it.

USA is a nation of innovators and is genuinely exceptional in ways that put it up their with the great empires of old. While it stands as the far unmatched military might of the world, it's military bloated and unnecessary in my opinion, it doesn't use this military to actively oppress or conquer. While misguided occasionally, the US military is deployed as a peacekeeping force in an attempt to secure freedom and liberty for the world, and it is, in principle an inspiration to us all. There is room for improvement, but in comparison to all other nations that have risen as a superpower militarily, USA is by far the fairest and most reserved. But it doesn't stop there, USA is exceptional in business and economics. When it was founded USA was the leader of the agricultural market, exporting sugar, cotton, tobacco and corn at greater amounts than any other country. It quickly became an industrial power in the 1900's and was the centre of innovation and invention. In recent times, it has housed some of the greatest minds of the 20th and 21st centuries, and is the centre of the information age. With only 5% of the worlds population, USA produces almost a quarter of the worlds GDP. USA produces 3 times as much in exports and GDP than China, the next most productive country in the world, with less than a quarter of Chinas population. Whilst I may not like the ideals of Capitalism, in practice, they work and USA has proved this. But while wealth is great, anyone can make money. Scientifically, I must hold my hands up to USA and say that, while I find their scientists deplorable as they lack a proper method of peer review and greatly damage the good name of the scientific method, science is one of the strongest cards USA has to play. The population on average may be stupid, but some of the most intelligent and capable people are Americans. USA produces more scientific research papers and journals than any other country by far, in fact they make more than Canada, Japan and most of Europe combined. UK the second most scientifically productive country in the world, produces on average 1.5 million scientific citations per year, USA produces on average 6.1 million per year. While I question the quality of many of these that's still an impressive devotion to science that I feel truly inspired for. More than 90% of medical research is done in USA, and inventions are far too numerous to mention. USA has been responsible for the invention of refrigeration, the digital computer, the aeroplane, the communications satellite, the liquid fuelled rocket, the transistor, lasers, carbon-dating, the credit-card, carbon-fibre, kevlar, the compact-disc, the integrated circuit-board and not forgetting... the video game (yes, they where an American, not Japanese invention). The Americans also landed a space shuttle on the moon, mapped the human genome, discovered the quark, and was the first nation to perfect animal cloning. To deny the genius of USA is to wilfully lie. It is such a shame the general population of USA cannot appreciate the brilliance of their country, but it is a real inspiration and one that other countries really should move to emulate. Culturally USA is a triumph with the best films, TV shows and music of recent times being all American productions, while the vast majority of American productions are awful, the very best of modern media is usually American, but media isn't what culture is all about, it's a measure of the ideals of a country. USA is a country founded of principals that even today would be considered revolutionary. Some of the most proudly held values of the United States are values I hold as the most valuable of society. Freedom of speech, separation of church and state, innocent until proven guilty, the demand for a free press, the right to vote, the right to protest, the equality of human kind, and the constant fight for liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The constitution and the bill of rights are a testament to American idealism and what all should strive to. Do I agree with all of the ideals in those documents? No. But if I where an American I would feel a true sense of pride in such thing. As a British person I can say with absolute honesty, if I where alive in the times of George Washington, I'd have been on that boat with him. A true visionary and I hope every American at some point tries to live up to his idea of America, it's an incredible nation...

So there we have it. I think it's fair to say I respect and admire USA, while at the same time I hate and despise it. Why? Because in this world, if there's any nation that will be at the front, ready to take us to a new enlightenment, a second renaissance, it will be the United States of America, but for this to happen, the country needs to change. It's public needs to respect science and recognise the incredible feats of science it's country does while they still can, because if they don't Europe, China, India, Japan and Russia will... our national respect for science is growing, USAs is shrinking. USA needs to break away from religious dogma. In the early 1800's USA was one of the least religious countries, a haven for atheists and freethinkers, a true secular society and this is why it was so great. To see it become 'Jesusland' is depressing. With a little effort, some social reform, some liberal thinking and some more focus on the more important things USA could be great again. If USA could focus more on education, institute universal healthcare, cut military by a huge amount and a institute a more progressive tax system, it could become the envy of the world.

There's a reason I focus so much on USA. It's the most influential country of our time, everything that happens in USA effects my country and my life, but more than that. USA is a country with such potential, it could become a beacon for everything I hold dear and everything I respect, but at the moment it strangles my values and is reverting to ideals that I consider painfully barbaric. USA brings a tear to my eyes, it was so close to being my perfect country but every day it moves further away and becomes a corrupted and warped version of everything I hold dear.

I've heard people tell me "You have no right to an opinion. You're not an American, you have no idea what it's like here", and they couldn't be more wrong. They don't know what it's like outside of USA, they're self absorbed ignorant arrogant Americans and I HATE them. They are a symbol of all I hate in USA, and why? Because I likely know more about their nation than they do, and I appreciate it so much more. I hate Americans not because I hate America, I hate Americans because they're not good enough for America, and they're destroying my American dream.

Thank you for reading my post, I hope it's given you something to think about.

^^ /facepalm

Enough said

You are an embarrassment to your country and only serve to make Americans look like self-aggrandising, arrogant, illiterate, xenophobic, morons. You should be ashamed of this post.

I'm assuming you would rather live in Iran or Russia. You liberals wan't to see the US turned into Europe where all the countries are equal. I'm probaby guessing you think the US should have open boarders? Name one other country that has even come close to the US tecnolgicaly, economicaly or in any other form.

I'd actually quite like to spend a bit of time in Russia but that aside someone should probably tell you that there are more than 3 countries on the planet. The choices aren't USA, Iran or Russia...

Personally I'd rather live in Norway, it's a very nice country, extremely progressive law system and fantastic education and healthcare systems. The country has the lowest religious attendance in Europe, it's entirely secular, it's got extremely high computer literacy rates and it supports gay rights. Really, the only reason I don't move is because I don't speak Norwegian and I'm rather attached to many aspects of British culture. Perhaps in later life I may retire to Norway, who knows. Until then, I'm quite happy in UK, it's got it's flaws, but there are considerably worse countries out there.

...still if you want to live in Iran or Russia, don't let me stop you, I'm sure you'll thoroughly enjoy yourself.


I'm a socialist, not a liberal. "want" doesn't have an apostrophe, and the countries in Europe are not "equal" by any stretch nor do they relate to the idiocy of American Exceptionalism.


I really couldn't care less, but I can tell by your stupid assumptions that I care about the US boarder policy that you're one of those xenophobic pricks who're terrified of immigration because it means at some point you may be expected to be in a room with a brown person or hear someone speak Spanish in your presence. Perhaps if you knew something about the US economy and immigration laws you'd not blame foreigners for everything.


Japan, United Kingdom, Germany, France and The Netherlands all spring to mind, and best still, despite 4 out of 5 of those countries not having English as their first language, most people in them can spell the word 'technologically'.

Now, why don't you fúck off and take your pathetic, overpatriotic America worship somewhere else, you're making the place look untidy.

TC,

First I have to acknowledge your exceptional writing and debate skills.
Your intellect and maturity would be better challenged on a adult forum then here on NGU.

As you are completely aware, the average membership age here is 15 and it is not entirely fair to use some of these posts as a general view on Avg American intelligence.

I have just come across this incredibly well written thread and am typing a quick response on my phone until I can give some of your views more worthy challenges.

On first review, my initial reaction is not to challenge your basic premises, but to question your generalizations on the average American.
Your general tone implies that America's Populace is far more ignorant of it's own and others accomplishments than those in other countries. I would argue that we are no more ignorant, as a nation, than any other in the world and less than many.

This is a very intriguing thread to me and I have often questioned the hostility shown to the US by so many on this site. I usually temper my responses to it by realizing that most of the interaction on this site is done by members who have not yet had the time to gain an adult perspective on the world.

I do hate trying to respond to a good topic off my phone and look forward to giving you a more thorough response soon.

But I feel assured that you would be no less perturbed if I told you that I know more about your country's values, ideals, accomplishments and ignorance than most of your countrymen.

I acknowledge that American's are inappropriately proud, but far less critical of our friends in Europe.

You could better argue that it is worse to be so arrogant that we don't even care to be critical.

I've considered the age issue on NGU considerable and have been working on a proposal to send to Outsider that I feel will attract a more mature user base to NGU to compliment, rather than replace, it's current user base. Ideally I wanted to have sent this already but I've been ill these past few days with a chest infection. I've already spoken to Drackos, -Dave- and Clutch Hunter about this and intend to send the same proposal to them. I'll happily include you if you're interested but I didn't want to presume that all the mod team have the free time to discuss my ideas. The more of the mod team I have to give me critique and possibly come on board, the more likely my proposal will work. That aside though...

I try when debating to take age into account. I work under the assumption that I'm probably talking to a teenager, but I don't want to dismiss all views as those of children. It's a risky stance to take as it can easily cause offence to talk to an adult as though they lack life experience, and I know how frustrating it can be from the many times I've been told in the 'rugs' thread to stop basic my opinions on movies because people assume I've not experienced certain things.

While I think you're right it some respects, a more adult forum would be more challenging. I'm not really debating to be challenged, I'm debating because I like to influence others. It's big headed I know, but I like to feel I'm effecting the minds and opinions of those around me and I get that more on NGU. On the average debate forum, everyone is either far too arrogant or far too easily offended (I've been banned from a fair few forums before today for being to "disrespectful" of other people opinions, largely because I refuse to pretend everyone's opinion is equal or reasonable). While I somehow managed to trip one of the most pathetic examples of overreaction and petty winging from Diji and Reaper (and yes, I'm not going to stop mocking you guys), and was removed from Media Team for daring to disagree with them, this is rare on NGU. The average member has think skin and can take criticism, and I feel that I might change someones mind or make them think more deeply on a subject... and who knows, I might learn something myself. Before I joined NGU I assumed all Call Of Duty fans where you stereotypical dude-bros, and had the collective intelligence of a rather stupid gnat. I now know, that only true for most of them



I look forward to your future posts then, I'm happy to concede that the problems outlined are not simply American issues. USA isn't the only country with too much pride and little critical introspection, but it is the most powerful and obvious example of that.

As I've said, in the right light, and under the right mood, I could be one of the most pro-American people in the world. I can recite the pledge of allegiance, I know the original writing of the Bill Of Rights off by heart, and I'm a firm believer of upholding the constitution of the United States as a strong example of moral and civil progression that other countries could greatly learn from. Do I agree with it entirely, hell no. I certainly don't agree with the Second Amendment and I'm forever grateful that the UK doesn't allow private citizens to own guns. Sure, it does have some stupidity involved, for example the UK Olympic handgun team have to train in France because their guns are banned in UK. (God only knows how they're going to sanction the shooting events in the London Olympics 2012, when the equipment is illegal here). Still, all in all, I feel safer without guns being a public commodity and I can justify my reasoning for keeping them illegal will figures to back me up.

For now, I'll leave my response at this, and wait to hear what arguments or points you want to bring forward. I look forward to any discussion or potential debate that may form from this, especially as this is one issue where my opinion is rather malleable and ambivalent.

The only reason Europe was able to thrive is because we have poored trillions and trillions of dollers into the EU. I don't know how you can call the US illliterate, we have produced more authors then any other country in the past one hundread years. England, France, Italy and the Netherlands are being flooded with people from 3rd world countries. I DON'T BLAME IMMAGRATIONS, I blame people who wan't to open the boarders and alow any one to come to our country. We should alow doctors, lawers, engineers and educted people to come not drug lords and people who live off well fair. I not a racist by any means, infact my mom is latino. What pisses me off is when I see people who come to our country illegaly and abuse the welfaire system and break the laws. My family immigrated here and worked hard and it pisses me off when I see people living off the fruit of other peoples labor. I may not know every aspect of immigration but I can blame immigration for one of the leading factors of the break down of Californias heath cair system.

Progresivism? isn't that what led to eugenics in the 1920 and 30s and inspired Hitler to kill off the hadicapped.
Norway may not be as racist as russia but the man who killed all thoes people in Oslo was driven by racism and some one with a glock could have ended him real fast. And for the secular part Islam is about to move in.

I'm still waiting for an ansure for a country that has even come close to the US in any way, shape or form? America may not be what it was 10 years ago but thats what you get when you elect a president who has no experience. The US needs a leader like Regan and Tatcher

I also don't understand how you can call any one illiterate because their fingers slip on a video game fourm. When you write for a fourm filled with 13 and 14 year olds you tend to stop caring.

The same way I can justify saying that's nothing more than an excuse to not have to show me the proper respect of writing out your posts properly. If you can spell properly but choose not to, quite frankly that's extremely insulting to both yourself and me.

As far as the rest of your post goes. I'm not going to address those points because I'm fairly sure you're trolling. You think a single act of terrorism makes a country "driven by racism", you think Islam is sweeping across Europe, you mention a president who "no experience" (who exactly do you mean here, and you prop up Regan and (I'm assuming) Thatcher as good leaders? You're either stupid or trolling.

Justify your stance and explain your points, oh, and write in proper English, or I'm ignoring you. Try again.