Post: GT6 Game Physics Testing
04-30-2014, 09:03 PM #1
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
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GT6 Physics Testing & Analysis

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Here are some videos (I can only add 2 so Ill link post where videos are posted when I can)



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The following 9 users say thank you to SiNiST3R for this useful post:

Jounijkk, kazzbakkisback, nextgole, OdeFinn, P$ycho, policedu, q-k, turbo_nova2l, tyronekfc
04-09-2015, 11:54 PM #434
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
Originally posted by OdeFinn View Post
100/100/100 might give same as 100/any/any if my hunch is right.


What will be interesting i think is the offsetting 80/60, 60/80. 100/100/100 is a control trying to answer CAN we lock the diff. After we test both 100/0 0/100 as both should lock the diff IF I can get it to lock, what it should do and what it does are not always the same thing, that's why test everything before saying ye or ne .

My first curiosity is WILL the diff lock. I can put in setting outside available range that work like jacked up or over slammed ride height, but I've never tried to lock the diff like this, will it lock is the question.
04-10-2015, 12:58 AM #435
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
Test results so far, Test car is the C7 GT Concept

As suspected, now confirmed 100/100/100 achieves a perfect locked diff at all times. Looking in the data logger at the rear wheel speeds shows the 2 are the exact same at all times.

Test 2 10/90/90

As suspected on acceleration and braking the diff is perfectly locked, only when off throttle / off brake can a difference in wheel speed be seen. For example the off throttle for a shift that is automatic. Wheel speeds match during shift off throttle they slightly offset, as the throttle comes back in the wheel speeds level out instantly, the same hitting the brake, any throttle or brake input locks the diff.

Test 3 0/100/100 looking for more difference when off throttle off brake and locked when on throttle and on brake, and this is exactly what I see, notably larger gap in wheel speed than 10/90/90 as 0 INT should be looser.

At this point IMO its looking more and more like % of lock can be confirmed, and so far things are working as they should notably on throttle, on brake, and neutral input. Accel setting COMBINED with INT for the lock on acceleration, then Deccel Setting and INT combined for the deceleration lock, INT exclusive no throttle & no brake input.
04-10-2015, 01:12 AM #436
OdeFinn
Bounty hunter
Those 60/40/40 should then give identical values with 60/40+n/40+n. This people can test without CFW running ps3, just by using data logger.
If you test 100/0/0 it then should give same locking as 100/0+n/0+n.
04-10-2015, 02:59 AM #437
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
Originally posted by OdeFinn View Post
Those 60/40/40 should then give identical values with 60/40+n/40+n. This people can test without CFW running ps3, just by using data logger.
If you test 100/0/0 it then should give same locking as 100/0+n/0+n.


Tested 100/0/0 and the results is a full time locked diff.

Yes 60/40/40 anything above 40 is irrelevant, so the 60/60/60 set ups are equal to 60/40+/40+ lol

60/40(+ is irrelevant)/40(+ is irrelevant) creates a locked diff on throttle and brake but not when zero input (no throttle or brake) then its at 60% lock and wheel speeds will offset.

The benefit to a CFW PS3 in these test is we can fully lock any setting to confirm source of offset as without a 100 setting there will not be full time lock.

The settings confirmed represent % of lock IMO and work as expected.

Here are the replays of the test runs, The comments reflect the diff settings used I/A/D

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All replays analyzed in the data logger with speed, throttle input, brake input, and Rear left / Right wheel speeds Displayed
04-10-2015, 03:41 AM #438
What tire the car was on ? I drift ever since GT5, I used to try many numbers and between 30 to 60 on gas do give different reaction when drifting. Did you test on half or partial throttle too ? I often spent on part throttle when drifting and I definitely can feel the rear hooking nearing end of drift differently on 60 or less.

In drift circle, we often call the initial, breakaway torque, up to the torque used, both wheel will no easily have speed difference, so if the test is only playing with gas or brake, it wont give anything about how the rear wheel react when one of the wheel loses traction.

Maybe you can drift the car, increase the engine torque and power, use lowest tire CH. I used to set 60 0 0 when I started drifitng and was a noob then, its not a locked diff, both rear wheel do not lose traction together.
04-10-2015, 03:44 AM #439
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
Originally posted by RocketScientist View Post
What tire the car was on ? I drift ever since GT5, I used to try many numbers and between 30 to 60 on gas do give different reaction when drifting. Did you test on half or partial throttle too ? I often spent on part throttle when drifting and I definitely can feel the rear hooking nearing end of drift differently on 60 or less.

In drift circle, we often call the initial, breakaway torque, up to the torque used, both wheel will no easily have speed difference, so if the test is only playing with gas or brake, it wont give anything about how the rear wheel react when one of the wheel loses traction.

Maybe you can drift the car, increase the engine torque and power, use lowest tire CH.


Aside from the adjustable diff the car is factory stock. I ran a lap, nothing special just doing the paces to get a replay to bring to the logger, then watched rear wheel speeds as I drive around the track doing it all from partial to wot driving around the track.

Looking at 60/60/60 vs 60/40/40 the same pattern can be seen when ever on throttle or brake the wheel speeds are instantly identical only off throttle off brake can the offset be seen and in both its identical inside a few mph wheel speed variation.

The 60 INT plus a 40 Accel setting nets 100% lock on acceleration, and when off throttle the accel setting has zero effect. Going above 40 on accel with a 60 INT wont make a difference because once 100% lock is hit it cant lock any more. 60/60 is trying to say 120 % locked is more than 100% locked...

The transition to lock is instant, the only thing I can think of different in a 60/60/60 set up could possibly be slightly delayed unlocking of the diff maybe going from on throttle to off throttle but that might be hard to see.

EDIT

Doing a second round of 60/60/60 vs 60/40/40 I cannot find any difference as any throttle or brake locks the diff instantly, partial throttle doesn't matter, throttle = locked diff, even getting off throttle with 60 INT its super tight but it will offset speeds, its hard to catch but at most I'm seeing a 1 mph offset but the int is so stiff at 60 combined with 40+ accel and 40+ deccel its hard to even see that much.
04-10-2015, 04:07 AM #440
When I drift, I can feel the outside wheel having more pull, I think thats how lock diff work, not giving same wheel speed. it transfer the torque from spinning wheel to teh gripping wheel, and thats how track car do it with less than drift of course.

did you look into 50 80 stock lsd ? the FRS, BRZ and 86 have it, so they lock 100% all the time when on gas ... I dont believe it.
04-10-2015, 04:38 AM #441
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
Originally posted by RocketScientist View Post
When I drift, I can feel the outside wheel having more pull, I think thats how lock diff work, not giving same wheel speed. it transfer the torque from spinning wheel to teh gripping wheel, and thats how track car do it with less than drift of course.

did you look into 50 80 stock lsd ? the FRS, BRZ and 86 have it, so they lock 100% all the time when on gas ... I dont believe it.


Dont mix up an open or limited slip set up diff with a locked diff. When the diff is locked its locked, left and right wheels are going the exact same speed getting the exact same amount of power 50/50. When open the power is still split equally between left and right, still 50/50 tq at all times while the wheels go different speeds, power is however limited to as much as can be put down by the low grip tire, exceeding the low grip tires ability breaks traction spinning the tire and all power to accelerate is lost since the slipping tire is using 0% power to accelerate the car the tire with grip gets 0%power and the car doesn't accelerate.. The tire with grip gets no more pow than the low grip tire ever, power is always identical. The limited slip can be set up anywhere between an open and locked diff and can overcome an offset in grip that an open diff cannot.

A locked diff will result in equal power in both wheels and equal speeds. In the data logger it can be seen as left and right speeds become identical.

Ive not yet looked at 50/80, thanks for pointing at the cars with it. Keep in mind its probably a 1 way diff with no deccel setting. Also keep n mind the BRZ has very low tq.

Edit

Quick lap in a BRZ then a trip to the logger shows identical wheel speeds every time the thottle is pushed, its NOT got a lot of torque so its not going to fry any tires the transition is not as instant as in the Corvette with the low tq BRZ, and its a 1 way diff with no Deccel setting. This is a good set up for a low TQ car, the Miata has a similar 1 way although the Mazda is lighter and cant get away with such a tight set up. As long as they don't have enough TQ to break loose the inside tire it works real good. Up the power on the BRZ and she will start breaking loose the inside tire, then the diff will need some loosening up.
04-10-2015, 05:32 AM #442
Originally posted by SiNiST3R View Post
Dont mix up an open or limited slip set up diff with a locked diff. When the diff is locked its locked, left and right wheels are going the exact same speed getting the exact same amount of power 50/50. When open the power is still split equally between left and right, still 50/50 tq at all times while the wheels go different speeds, power is however limited to as much as can be put down by the low grip tire, exceeding the low grip tires ability breaks traction spinning the tire and all power to accelerate is lost since the slipping tire is using 0% power to accelerate the car the tire with grip gets 0%power and the car doesn't accelerate.. The tire with grip gets no more pow than the low grip tire ever, power is always identical. The limited slip can be set up anywhere between an open and locked diff and can overcome an offset in grip.

A locked diff will result in equal power in both wheels and equal speeds. In the data logger it can be seen as left and right speeds become identical.

Ive not yet looked at 50/80, thanks for pointing at the cars with it. Keep in mind its probably a 1 way diff with no deccel setting. Also keep n mind the BRZ has very low tq.

Edit

Quick lap in a BRZ then a trip to the logger shows identical wheel speeds every time the thottle is pushed, its NOT got a lot of torque so its not going to fry any tires the transition is not as instant as in the Corvette with the low tq BRZ, and its a 1 way diff with no Deccel setting. This is a good set up for a low TQ car, the Miata has a similar 1 way although the Mazda is lighter and cant get away with such a tight set up. As long as they don't have enough TQ to break loose the inside tire it works real good. Up the power on the BRZ and she will start breaking loose the inside tire, then the diff will need some loosening up.




A locked diff will result in equal power in both wheels and equal speeds. In the data logger it can be seen as left and right speeds become identical.

I think you are wrong on this, if GT6 has locked diff with 40 60 or anything with 100 in total, then cars would be a dog to drive, have you ever driven a car with welded diff on the street ? same constant wheel speed, its nasty and under over in a blink.

I think gt6 logger is fucked up, if a car can go through a lap with both driven wheel ( front or rear ) on same speed on every corner, we might just watch horse cart racing.

did you try brz with your tune that you posted here ? try that on ch tire, stock lsd, then custom with same 50 80 and try what gt6 players can have 50 60. for laugh, put 50 50 and hold a speed over a long corner, say tsukuba last turn or big willow turn 2. 100 lock with 50 50 or 50 60 like you said with same wheel speed do not drive like on stock lsd. I have drift frs with 60 60 5 lsd, it has more than 300hp and spent many hours drifting and all this time i can just use 50 50 5 for 100% lock ? I still think 60 60 is not even close to welded diff.

a 100% locked diff ( welded ) will spin both wheels together, is this 100% in GT6 40 60 50 50 or any with total 100 ? I dont think so. Having same speed in data logger is useless, a front wheel drive wont turn when both wheels are on the same speed when turn in or going off a corner.

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