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There is so much more involved. You can actually run a full 4x4 with locked diffs on the street but the suspension is set up for it, soft springs with very stiff arb, this generates lift on the inside wheel to allow it to slip more easily , understeery like a pig on a 4x4 but not on a low tq RWD car with a 1 way diff locking only on acceleration with a tuned suspension for it.

Full time lock 4x4 on the street is not ideal because it eats tires quick and stresses the drivetrain on top of handling like crap. GREAT for going over bolders or off roading though. But eating tires and handling like crap doesn't stop it from going around corners, not fast but it will get around. lets not forget the 4x4 also has steering wheels that point in the direction we want to go.

Wheels going same speed doesn't reflect slip..



Unfortunatly the only way to look at wheel speeds in GT6 is in the logger. There is a glitch where a second file loaded will display half the actual wheel speed, but Im not looking for total, thats irrelevant to me, Im only looking for left to right offset. When I see the 2 identical at all times it means that its locked. Lets not forget tire slip/slip angles, wheel speed alone is not telling the whole story of whats happening going around the corner, its telling us when the wheels are spinning the same speed slipping or not..



Remember its not the Front Wheel drive car with a 50/80/0 diff is it, and a locked diff in a FWD car is ridiculous. If you like Ill lock up a FWD car and test it but we both can probably agree its going to understeer like a pig, as it is expected to with a locked diff.

EDIT
As expected wheel speeds are the same at all times on the FWD with a locked diff, thankfully the rear wheels are free spinning an the front wheels turn, she was an absolute pig and the tires chirping every time the cars not going straight, chiping tells me I got inside wheel slip.

Locking the diff is doing whats expected of a locked diff, Im not sure what more I can look into on the diff. Ill run a Scooby WRX all locked up, that might be funny, that should understeer like crazy.

Done, Yup all 4 wheels with identical wheel speeds, but a lot of slip going on. Like trying to steer a train she understeers so much

I will try it on FF, 40 60 equals 100% lock ? I will try civic and try it on fwd hybrid with awd, audi quattro tt that I happen to drive in real life for some years, the tt quattro won't turn with front lsd 40 60 5 and rear 5 5 5, if it is 100% lock.

welded dif locks on both ways, it's welded. I have taste it on a cheap beater 70's corolla, go figure, less than 100hp and it makes me want to stop driving after a few turns, unless I drift it. I am confused, you said locked diff, is this spool or welded ? if not, then 100% in GT6 will be what ? kaaz lsd with 100% lock ? the drift lsd used on some of my friends car in real life uses 2 way os giken or kaaz and they are not welded or spool kind. they told me it can lock 100% but still don't drive like welded one. I will have to ask them what they really mean 100%.

I saw this video on dollhaus tuning guide :

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAw79386W[/video]

lots of shown there is not the same like you said. watch the whole show and the end, inner wheel slower than outside wheel with a diff, welded example on a locked wheel, it has same speed and the outside wheel will slide/spin. Imagine that locked wheel is the front wheel on fwd car and you turn, it would push then slide. Just reminded talking about this, I had high school buddy who tried drifting and track driving with a beater civic, he got 80% lock track spec high preload lsd 1 way set by a garage, it just push and slide going wide even on parking lot, he was warned before hand the lock and preload are too high for the street and car condition/setup, but he was too stubborn, it was too funny to see, noob days. if GT6 set at 80% 40 40 5 is truly 80%, a 100hp civic should just do the same on ch tire driving on parking lot speed, below 40mph.

GT6 100% lock like you said is not 100% lock, this is my current view.

Anything will still turn even if 4x4 and 100% lock on all wheels, unless you lock the steering wheel. There is also a difference between full time lock and locked on acceleration.....



Simply put that's wrong. It might not turn as well, it will understeer, BUT it will still turn...




Locked is locked, Spool, welded it doesn't matter, one could even say a Detroit Locker as when its locked its locked. We are obviously using a Adjustable LSD in GT6 to set in a locked diff, the question is moot. There is no welding anything in GT6 and there is no Spool Diff or Detroit Locker, it doesn't matter as no matter how its locked, locked is locked. One could fill the diff case with cement all around the side gears and planetary gears, it would be dumb, but sill locked.




No you have misunderstood. BTW Video Does Not Exist Error



As I said a LSD can be set up to overcome an offset in grip not when its in a locked or open state though

The inner wheel always has a shorter distance to travel than the outside wheel in a corner

Like I said there is so much more involved...




No the outside wheel without slipping HAS TO GO FASTER than the inside wheel because the outside wheel has a longer distance to travel in a corner. The locked diff will have the INSIDE wheel slip/spin NOT the outside wheel, both going the same speed the inside wheel is slipping turning FASTER than it needs to for the distance its traveling...

You got it all backwards...




It is what it is...

Im not following your logic. It appears your making a fixed connection between a locked diff and the car being unable to go around a corner & this is simply not true. A locked diff does not mean the car will be unable to go around a corner.

Everything Pointing to the answer, its up to you if you want to accept the results or not, but in all honesty it cut and dry.... We got a Quacking Bird that Looks like a Duck... As much as you think the logger is wrong its also showing exactly what we would expect to see if all things are working correctly, you can think the logger is wrong too, but seriously at this point its clear as day In My Opinion..


OdeFiNN Had some questions for confirmation on his theories of the diff and My Opinion is his theories are spot on. Not only for how it works in real life, but also how it works in GT6. Tested and IMO Confirmed...

I made a mistake with the link



with the tt quattro, I didnt mean wont turn literally, its just my way of saying it will plow on entry. thank for correcting, the inner wheel spins on the welded wheel.

my only theory now is gt6 lsd is based on plate lsd, i got hold of my friend who had 2 way lsd with 100% lock, he said it's 100% lock ratio. i learn new things today, he daily driven his ride and it does get noisy. he told me many got confused with lock numbers, he said 80% lock ratio or above are limited in use ( track, off road, rally, drifting ) and welded diff is not the same as these 80-100% lsd. he said something about torque bias, preload torque, multi plates and cam angle, it was on the phone, so can't talk for long.

I asked about same speed wheel speed in corner, he said that's not right, lsd will always varied the speed between wheels even with 100% lock ratio, thats how a car can turn without losing traction, unless both wheels are free spinning on very slippery surface or drifting. only welded diff stays constant at all times.

Not sure what he says all correct, maybe I need to drive his car.

My teacher showed us that video in mechanics school when we were starting the differential module. YEARS ago on a 2 reel projector..

I believe the clutch type being simulated is an adjustable cluth pack mechanical diff. Clutch Disks or plates

This about set up of the diff.

Its NOT done BUT an LSD can be set up to be full time lock, this was simulated by me with settings of 100/100/100 AS IF I added as many clutch disks to the clutch pack as I could while also putting in the strongest possible pre load spring, this is the same as welding the diff...

However we dont set up a LSD like that

We should take a moment to look at different set ups of LSD

1 way / 1.5 way / 2 way

An adjustable Limited Slip is VERY versatile and can be set up in MANY MANY ways more than just those 3 it can also be set up fully open or fully locked. Albeit not in GT6 as we are limited to inside the 5 to 60 window of lock % and what can be done inside that window. it takes CFW to test beyond, essentially I can simulate any diff set up BUT a dynamical diff.

Your friends 2 way has a pre load & his deccel lock % is equal to his accel lock %

However 100% lock is 100% lock, he must mean its different as in 50/80 for example DOES NOT mean full time lock where a welded diff is full time lock.

The BRZ Diff is not a 2 way diff, its not even a 1.5 way, its only a 1 way diff

The 1.5 way diff will have accel and deccel lock but different % of lock, while a 1 way has no deccel lock.

A fully adjustable LSD can be set up as a 2 way or a 1.5 way, they actually can be set up to be a 1 way too, but GT6 limits the lowest setting to 5 not zero so we are limited by available range in GT6, BUT The BRZ and a few other use a 1 way diff stock, and a few even run a fully open dff.

Nowadays we have electronically controlled diffs that are dynamical, they can change lock % due to conditions


Hmmm I wonder if the additional diff codes for accel and deccel have anything to do with electronically controlled diffs possibly a variable lock % but only on cars with those type of diffs. Look into that tomorrow or later this week.

Superb, I have feeling at there is going some hats on supper at GTP.

Gonna run some verification test when time ps3, but I'm expecting to get same results, my AssLogger told that logic in the beginning so have no reason to questionnaire it

Thanks sinister.

No problem

"AssLogger" lol

I got his specs, tomei 2 way cam 60/60 with quoted 100% lock ratio/factor from the installer, 20 to 24 friction disk ( not sure ), super high custom initial +20kgm on engine with 40kgm torque.

Thats what he wrote on his text message. he also said it's milder than the kaaz 2 way he tried before with similar quoted 100% lock, about the same whine noise. he said its the tomei more likely about 80% lock factor with 9:1 bias ratio, 10% torque on one wheel and 90% on the other.

he also added with lsd having 100% lock factor=infinite bias ratio, one wheel can have zero torque ( catch air or on ice ) and the other have 100% torque from engine. the initial torque/preload allowed the tomei LSD to operate when one wheel have zero torque, setting the right amount allow smooth transition from coast to drive on the cam action. Initial torque do not add more lock ratio or strength, it alters the balance. he said used to confused it by adding more initial torque/preload to get more locking ratio, the right way is to increase cam angle / lower ramp angle for more locking factor or force, increase disk size for better wear and feel, and more disk for smoother and quicker response, but some says more locking effect with more clutch disk surface.

too high preload adds understeer, and he said just imagine a clamp with some tension / initial torque holding both wheels together, when the torque difference surpassed the clamp tension, one of the wheel will break away and spins at different speed, the cam and friction disk maintain the difference by sending more torque to the wheels with less torque ( inside wheel )

I never tried his car or have a custom diff on my own car, but he seems to be doing fine with his car.

Definitely not what welded or locked diff does, right ?

RocketScientist, what I'm reading your texts seems like you are bit misunderstood what sinister told, I know and seems like sinister knows too how differential locks work on real life, now we're just tested how GT6 locks handles inputted values on tuning sheet.
You're right on many places, but you're mixing wrong things from real life to GT6.
GT6 LSD can be treated as clutch pack limited slip differential, undestructible one, what will never start slipping even 10000lb forces are coming there, IF setting is 100. But we cannot set 100 on legal GT6. But same not slipping lock can be activated using SUM of INIT and either ACCEL or DECEL going to 100. In this way small lifting of gas will release full lock to INIT value locking.
So only way to simulate welded is possible thru CFW ps3 and hacking GT6.
Who needs welded?
I'm just having fun with my BTR using 15/28/28 2-way lock
Btw. Using that lock on BTR so called transmission whine reduced nearly to zero, and it pinpointed to be a noise from rear differential, sound now varies only bit during cornering when coasting there.