Post: GT6 Game Physics Testing
04-30-2014, 09:03 PM #1
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
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GT6 Physics Testing & Analysis

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Lap Battles
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Here are some videos (I can only add 2 so Ill link post where videos are posted when I can)



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The following 9 users say thank you to SiNiST3R for this useful post:

Jounijkk, kazzbakkisback, nextgole, OdeFinn, P$ycho, policedu, q-k, turbo_nova2l, tyronekfc
06-23-2015, 08:31 PM #821
OdeFinn
Bounty hunter
Dunno, I steer when car moves, that behaviour on park is nonsense.
But I could check that for you, steering while car moves is same as on GT5, working.
Even that park "bug" exist I would more likely say that the bug was way how GT5 worked.
06-23-2015, 08:55 PM #822
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
Originally posted by OdeFinn View Post
Dunno, I steer when car moves, that behaviour on park is nonsense.
But I could check that for you, steering while car moves is same as on GT5, working.
Even that park "bug" exist I would more likely say that the bug was way how GT5 worked.


I just did a Power Steering Assist On to Off to On to Off to On to Off, and its still broken, doesn't do what it did in GT5 for certain... Testing done with the 8-6.


EDIT

Ive gone and done some further testing of the Power Assisted Steering option and I believe that there is actually an effect going on, the FFB gets ever so slightly lighter on a FAST correction, almost unnoticeable unless making corrections or quick direction changes in something like a set of S-Turns.. However I do indeed feel the wheel get a bit lighter at times. Doesnt make the wheel less jerky on the straight tho.

I decided a car that pushed the FFB a little more would test better and it did, I used the GT-R LM NiSMO at LeMans and it was good for testing. The PHYSICS are the same nothing changes BUT there is a lightening of the FFB when making fast inputs, its nothing like it was in GT5 and PRE-1.12 but this is certainly interesting as on the surface especially compared to GT5 and Pre 1.12 it appears to do nothing, but from my testing does lighten the FFB in 1.19 when making very fast inputs.

This is a pretty good find Odefinn. I know its not what you were after but it is indeed something BIG IMO. Im sure many have tossed Power Assisted Steering in the "Broken" column as I did and while its very different from GT5 nd PRE 1.12 I do believe its not broken, just much much more subtle with the new FFB from 1.12... That said, its still an assist and not for me at all, it dulled out the FFB at times and made feeling out what Im doing less precise.

Its possible you FEEL there are differences with various rims because the power assisted steering is dulling out the FFB. Your feeling the assist, not a difference in rims.
06-23-2015, 09:31 PM #823
OdeFinn
Bounty hunter
Yep, I never said it changes physics, but it makes physics testing easier.
Overall lightening is noticeable during stable cornering turn, when you try to go thru corner using single turn angle, keeping wheel i.e. 40° angle, it's light to keep there, and without power steering it wants to turn more or less by game FFB.
That GT5 power steering on park is familiar from American cars, super light power steering, way how it works now in GT6 is more like way how European cars power steering works nowadays. I like more European way Winky Winky

About that lightening, changing rims changes lightening amount....

Originally posted by sinister
Its possible you FEEL there are differences with various rims because the power assisted steering is dulling out the FFB. Your feeling the assist, not a difference in rims.

Hmm.. If assist depends on rims then it is rim. Feedback is unique on different rims, and repeatable thing to test, can't understand your point.

Last edit on this post: test that HKS with Classic Steel standard size and Baja on standard size, from list on earlier post. Then you feel huge difference on feedback, as it should when switching from neutral/positive offset rims to high negative offset rims.
06-23-2015, 11:15 PM #824
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
Originally posted by OdeFinn View Post
Yep, I never said it changes physics, but it makes physics testing easier.
Overall lightening is noticeable during stable cornering turn, when you try to go thru corner using single turn angle, keeping wheel i.e. 40° angle, it's light to keep there, and without power steering it wants to turn more or less by game FFB.
That GT5 power steering on park is familiar from American cars, super light power steering, way how it works now in GT6 is more like way how European cars power steering works nowadays. I like more European way Winky Winky

About that lightening, changing rims changes lightening amount....


Hmm.. If assist depends on rims then it is rim. Feedback is unique on different rims, and repeatable thing to test, can't understand your point.

Last edit on this post: test that HKS with Classic Steel standard size and Baja on standard size, from list on earlier post. Then you feel huge difference on feedback, as it should when switching from neutral/positive offset rims to high negative offset rims.


What Im saying is there is no difference from rim to rim but you are getting confused by the power assisted steering effect. Its dulling out the road feedback. The FFB effect is entirely dependent upon input speed, its got nothing to do with the rims.

I jumped back in to test rims again this time with power steering on and the assist reduces the feel of the FFB the FFB being the feedback from the road that is dulling out the ability to feel any difference if any, its much harder to feel but again even with Power Assisted Steering On, I still feel no difference with any of the rims.
06-23-2015, 11:35 PM #825
Jounijkk
Do a barrel roll!
I drove all the standard size rims, all assistants off, no setups for the car, track real etc.
I can't find differences. For ex. time difference with classic steel and Baja was 0,01 sec. With those 2 I drove fastest time, others were 0,2 sec behind and close each other. My time window is 0,15 sec slower than Odes.

There was one thing what I'm wondering. Every time when I changed rims and get back on the track, I had problems to get the car back in my hand and lap times back in the time window. Normally I don't need so much time, but this car is pretty difficult to drive with own maximum speed. I tried to feel the differences and I thought Baja is the fastest and I tried every rims against Baja. But the clock says there is no difference

Jouni

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SiNiST3R
06-23-2015, 11:43 PM #826
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
I have entertained the possibility there is a difference, checked the code & tested many rims, still I didn't find any difference with rims even using multiple screen image settings and wheel power steering settings, maybe its time to start entertaining the possibility there is no difference..

What is interesting is the FFB effect of the Power Assisted Steering option. I don't like it and won't use it but I still find it interesting how the assist was changed at 1.12 and on the surface appears broken compared to the old effect Pre 1.12 and GT5.

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gt416
06-24-2015, 08:12 AM #827
OdeFinn
Bounty hunter
Originally posted by Jounijkk View Post
I drove all the standard size rims, all assistants off, no setups for the car, track real etc.
I can't find differences. For ex. time difference with classic steel and Baja was 0,01 sec. With those 2 I drove fastest time, others were 0,2 sec behind and close each other. My time window is 0,15 sec slower than Odes.

There was one thing what I'm wondering. Every time when I changed rims and get back on the track, I had problems to get the car back in my hand and lap times back in the time window. Normally I don't need so much time, but this car is pretty difficult to drive with own maximum speed. I tried to feel the differences and I thought Baja is the fastest and I tried every rims against Baja. But the clock says there is no difference

Jouni


There was one thing what I'm wondering. Every time when I changed rims and get back on the track, I had problems to get the car back in my hand and lap times back in the time window. Normally I don't need so much time, but this car is pretty difficult to drive with own maximum speed.
Your mind tricked you, you just adapted new driving style for different feel of rims without noticing that.
There is difference about us, I notice this change before I let my head adapt this change.

Baja is not fastest, time is not the thing here, testing is not about to get time, more likely what rims are giving you every lap same time. In this test there should be focus on this difference between rims before trying to do quick lap.

Jouni has probably driven lot of laps on Tsukuba to know how to drive on it, capable of doing "identical" laps before and after smoke break, but when changing rims he need time to get used on driving that car... ?
06-24-2015, 08:49 AM #828
OdeFinn
Bounty hunter
My conclusion about rims is pretty much like this:
If driver replicate his lap maneuvers (driving input) 1:1 between rims his car won't go identical route/line on track. Same throttle amount with same turning radius cannot be used to stay on line/track, but nobody wants to drive out from track and therefore they adapt immediately new steering radius and throttle input, without even noticing this.
I'm blessed or cursed with over one million driven kilometers on real life, and I easily could analyse my steering input while driving, I can hunt difference of 0.05 bar tire pressure on one wheel, and even pin point it which wheel it has and is it more or less on that tire, same goes on tire toe, feeling differences of 0.01-0.02, and also pinpoint it where it is and is it in our out. I'm a nightmare on service, and they who know me in there are being aware my knowledge/feel. Had fight from one car right McPherson upper bearings, I pinpointed failure there and service tested 2 times saying there is no failure, third time after demanded them to take McPherson out and check they find problem, rust on bearings and minimal tolerance made it jam time after time, jam what I could feel but no-one else. Car was 1 month old.. They replaced upper bearings and problem was gone, head of service was rolling his eyes and wondered how in the hell I could feel that.. Curse or bless, highly sensitive feeling.. Smile
06-24-2015, 01:44 PM #829
OdeFinn
Bounty hunter
About that Pepsi test, will test with four HKS cars, all 0 km cars with different rims, shuffling cars in car select until having no clue which is which, then picking one by one on online room where I could change car in seconds, and there is no demo car driving around where I could see rims, all rims will be painted matte black to hide their look on car selection.
I'm pretty sure at I can say which car has which rims. This will be tested after work.
Actually will do this with five cars and putting two with same rims.

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