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Shuffling cars = selecting randomly from 2nd to 5th car on my garage list, list is ordered by usage, doing this few minutes on row.
On online lobby actual car selection was first selecting separator car, some other than HKS, then always 5th HKS from list, rotates list until I have separator car on bottom.
No peaking on rims, 720p and all rims painted matte light gray it probably not help to peak. But I want to make this test also for my self, almost started to believe that all of this was just placebo, was mentally prepared to get results what will make me crawl here and start to apologise my placebo mantra.. But no this is no placebo."

Sounds like a BigFoot sighting.


I seen it I swear, always by the time I get to my camera he is running off & that's why the pictures are always at a distance out of focus. BUT he left this BigFoot Track so we know he's real...

Ever watch a BigFoot Hunter go BigFoot Hunting? Every sound they hear, thing they see is a BigFoot or "possibly" a BigFoot. They have a conclusion, that BigFoot is real and he is there with them. So they make connections that don't exist with facts that do exist... The sound they hear is factual, but its not a fucking BigFoot....

I think it's going to be a tough sell on anybody and a seldom repeated feat. Probably end up having the reversed effect to what you expect/want..

Tested without power steering, makes harder feel differences, but still my placebo hit finds differences and points right wheels..
I must put lottery line in.
Easier to spot differences with power steering, wheel gives too much wheel turn resistance without any actual force feedback from game, resistance similar to turning against center spring effect, that masks bit feel from game. Actual racing is much much more enjoyable without power steering, not arguing against that, it just masks that rim difference bit, making feeling it harder.
Will test more without power steering later, searching optimal ffb sensitivity and torque values for giving out best results.

Now did 3 test sets without power steering. Using tire wear normal/none/very fast. That changes bit difficulty level of feeling differences too.

Later more. I'm now going out for hunting my Bigfoot..

Your saying Power Assisted Steering off makes it harder to feel differences doesn't make any sense. Your interpretation on the effect of the assist is IMO completely off...



This makes no sense as these options do nothing to a G27. The wheels that are highlighted when the option is selected are the wheels that will be affected by the setting. It seems like your feeling a lot of things that are not there.



I think you are wrong. Power Assisted Steering does none of what you say it does.



It's the other way around. Power Assisted Steering Off shows differences better as feedback is not dulled....

Your misunderstanding what Power Assisted Steering does and big time..



No its nothing like how it was in GT5 or GT6 pre 1.12



Sure does, 1 to 1... I'm not suggesting it doesn't or there is any difference in turning radius.



Doesn't make any difference in traction, it makes a big difference in Feedback, the communication between the road and driver. It momentarily dulls feedback when making quick inputs. The Feedback is what is used to decipher and "Feel" things out, anything that works to dull the feedback is not useful in testing, actually it works to dull the feeling of differences instead of enhance them. It should always be off while testing.



I think Power Assisted Steering being on is massively causing confusion, your "feeling" differences that do not exist but you perceive them as differences the Feedback dulled is causing you trouble.



I truly believe this because the communication between the vehicle, road and driver is not dulled out by a wheel going light.

However you make the point that

"with it off the user gets better feedback on the edge of traction."

This statement is only Half True.

Its true that with it off the user gets better feedback that's my point and the reason why it should be off during testing, but the other part about the edge of traction is bogus. It has absolutely nothing to do with the edge of traction or feedback at the edge of traction, its solely about wheel weight to input speed all in the feedback. Holding steady at the limit of grip is exactly the same. Driving a car like my Spec Miata at the limit hides much of the effect of the power Assisted Steering because my inputs are so slow at the edge of grip, its when you make a fast input the feedback is dulled, even the Miata feels disconnected with it turned on although not as much as the GT-R LM NiSMO.



Power Assisted Steering Reduces the Force Feedback effect as you make fast inputs, it reduces the Feedback more the faster you turn the wheel.

Reducing the feedback dulls the communication with the driver, it dulls the Feel and therefore reduces the ability to Feel differences.. Makes it something that should NEVER be on during any type of physics testing as the as the physics are felt through the feedback, any dulling of the feedback is counter productive to testing.



Its not about helping Racing, that's not the point... That's irrelevant. What its doing is hurting our ability to feel out differences through feedback as the feedback is dulled.



Power Assisted Steering On nullifies results IMO.



No, it absolutely does not, it hurts with certainty.



No it does not "dull conventional wheel resistance during turns" leaving road feedback, not at all, it doesn't work like that at all, not even a little bit... It reduces resistance during fast inputs, you have the effect mixed up, its like we are not talking about the same thing. It DULLS the feedback from tires road everything when you make a fast input.



It does no such thing at all,not even slightly... It changes nothing about what direction the wheels are pointing in when giving any given amount of steering angle. All it does is reduce the resistance of the FFB motors on Fast inputs. I mean seriously its as simple as that....... The problem is we need consistency to feel differences and momentary dulling of the feedback reduces the consistency of the feedback, DONE finished, case closed...



I think you are very wrong and chasing BigFoot with this Rims business. I think your very wrong about your idea of Power Assisted Steering On being good for testing I think your confused on what its doing..... IMO its the complete opposite, Power Assisted Steering should be Off at all times during testing.



I don't buy your results, its going to be a tough sell. I don't believe in BigFoot...

I certainly believe that you believe there is a difference, I think your wrong, lets agree to disagree, I have entertained the idea for too long and there has been not one shred of evidence I've found to suggest your on to something. all I have found shows the exact opposite. I am glad that in all this I did test out Power Assisted Steering enough to make sure people turn that crap off especially for testing.


None of your interpretation makes any sense or even seem relevant to Power Assisted Steering, your mind is going in weird places.... Feeling things that are not there.

FFB:
Car standing still, parked.
Turning wheel, FFB wheel weight effect resists your turn, amount what game code programmer is made, doesn't take any input from physics model at all.
Same time game physics model informs changes from suspension/road/etc and combines in overall FFB feedback.
User feels this combined FFB.
When power steering is on there is code part what makes wheel weight effect slightly smaller, and starts to observe for quick movements of wheel, if of detects them it reduces wheel weight effect to nearly zero, and slightly reduce normal FFB feedback from game physics engine.

Because of that "FFB wheel weight effect" testing physics model sent FFB data is harder when power steering is disabled.

I think you are off... As you said. Power Assisted Steering On reduces wheel weight but leaves feedback from the road and tires alone. this is wrong. And your misunderstanding the Setting. The road feedback is relayed through the wheel as a level of resistance in the motors when making inputs, dulling that feedback directly reduces the feeling from the road and tires it certainly does not leave them intact.. Your mixed up thinking the assist turned on is helping you feel things when its actually confusing you making you feel things that are not there...



I think this is completely wrong, when testing physics any dulling of the FFB reduces the feel from differences and therefore reduces the drivers ability to feel them out, the way the assist works in GT6 is even worse because the reduction of FFB is not consistent but dependent upon input speed.. Testing we need full consistency of the FFB so that there is nothing blurring the feedback telling us whats different...

Even worse it causes massive confusion testing physics making drivers feel things that do not exist.

I think you are alone on this one.... I dont think anybody is going to agree with you about Power Assisted Steering.... Everybody will probably tell you relatively the same thing, give it a go at GTP, but do it at your own risk..

Maybe you need to reduce your FFB settings if Power Assisted Steering Off is too much for you to handle.

Then playing with settings that are irrelevant to the wheel in question is like trying to convince me they make an equal difference to DS3 users.. I wont be telling any DS3 users to make sure the wheel settings are on Simulation for the best DS3 experience, it simply makes no difference, like various rims and rim sizes, no difference what so ever to the handling..

I mean Simulation mode does nothing at all to a G27, its for wheels with 200 degrees rotation or less.

Force feedback on wheel is practically three different variable forces.
1. Force how much and where game is moving wheel.
2. Damper how much wheel resists your movements, regardless Force
3. Spring what is on old games used for centering wheel.

Power steering in GT6 reduces damper effect and registers movement speed for preparing to reduce force effect from physics engine and reducing damper effect close to zero. GT5 used spring effect slightly along with damper, Not sure is that still in use with GT6, not having equipment anymore what to use testing for that.

Earlier used wheel weight, but that correct naming is damper effect.

While damper effect is reduced other force effects are coming thru clearer, immersion of driving gets spoiled bit but Force effects are more "visible".

You are playing with settings that are irrelevant to the wheel in question...

I mean Simulation mode does nothing at all to a G27, its for wheels with 200 degrees rotation or less. The setting does nothing to a G27 but you swear it does???

This tells me where there is NO difference you seem to think there is one.. You got things all backwards..

As far as Power Assisted Steering Everything gets Dulled by the effect, nothing is left out to become more apparent, I don't think you can tell the difference, your ideas of how you think power Assisted Steering is helping you feel differences is completely wrong and convinced me you've gotten completely lost and your like the husband who refuses to admit to his wife he has no idea where he is...

Nice discussion we have here
I'm pretty sure at I can do test what shows simulation difference, test what can be recorded on data logger and see difference there.
Will get back on this when on ps3.