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"Wow the GTP Idea for a VGT is powered by a V4 TT with KERS and electric motors to make 4WD"

Oh my fucking God, they are so fucking smart with this Idea. Unbelievable this really high education on Engine Technics with High End Reallife Racing Driveway configurations.

Oh wait, there is a really important Point, the Reallife Racing Stuff.

The "Porsche 919 Hybrid" that starts this Year on the World Endurance Challange. I´m pretty sure, Porsche got a spy on GTP and has stolen this fucking genius Idea.

The "Porsche 919 Hybrid" has an 2L V4 Turbocharged Engine, an Engine Generator Unit (EGU) on the Frontaxle. Normally it drives as a Rear Wheel Drive Car, with KERS they got an All-Wheel Drive Car. And they have a Generator Unit in the Exhaust System, that works like a Turbine to Energy generation/production.

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But i think, they are a bunch of fucking Idiots. The Idea that engine used 2 Turbocharger is Bullshit! That doesn´t work. I mean that has never works very well on R4 Engines, because the firing order that 4 Zylinder Engine runs (1-3-2-4) prevents a stable Exhaust-Gas-Stream for 2 seperated Turbos. The only way to run 2 Turbos is, use an single Turbo Exhaustmanifold and split the Exhaust-Gas-Stream in two Lines. But this is also Bullshit because the way from Engine to both Turbos is to long. The Exhaust-Gas loses to much temperature and thermal energy.

So well, have a Nice Day.

Hahaha

Thats interesting, but probably a 4 stroke not a 2 stroke lol I am not familiar with the 919 but I would be surprised if its not bound by some displacement limitations as to why they are going for a Coke Bottle size engine lol. VGT Cars are not bound my some racing limitations on displacement etc so IMO building the car as if there is one is foolish.

The MGU-H your describing sounds like a MGU-H Turbo like 2014 F1 ERS

They could go with a pair of small turbos they don't need to merge the manifold at all, just really really small turbos (pointless as 1 turbo equal to the 2 small ones would be better) They could track the pipes off to one side look at the intake and exhaust manifolds on a VR6.The distance is small, compared to something like a rear mounted turbo like Ive seen on 1.8L Integras, Corvettes and Dodge Rams, the turbo is under the trunk. The issue is in the length of the charge pipe going back to the engine bay, as the longer it is the larger the volume that needs to be pressurized resulting in less boost making it to the chambers, but there is not as much need for an intercooler.

Its been proven a while back that the ever so popular Turbo hand book got a few details wrong (its the go to book on turbos and everybody uses it). One main one is the importance of heat spooling turbos. Heat doesn't spool turbos, exhaust gas flow does, and rear mounted turbos have proven this. I always get a giggle when the heat thing is brought up. I got into a few internet argument in the mid 90's over turbo'ing cars and some mixed up idea that heat spins turbos, but heat plays no part. the flow of the exhaust gases spins the turbine.

Yeah offcourse, the heat doesn´t spool the Turbo.

The point is the Exhaust-Gas Volume, because this is the released Thermal Energy after the combustion. When the Exhaust-Gas get to cold, you simply lost the Power from the Exhaust-Gas-Flow. This says you lost the Power for the combustion Chamber filling with petrol/air mixture and the efficient goes down. You got the same effekt with a to warm petrol/air mixture, because the Volumen has less Energy like the optimal petrol/air mixture Temperatur from 55° Celsius.

I know a Video from a C5 Corvette with backwards installed Turbos. It´s not bad at all and it works because the Turbos are a much smaller like regular Engineback Turbos. I mean, why pay for all this, when you get for the halfprice a Supercharger? To have to Say "Yo i got a Bi-Turbo Vette, with backwards installation. Ok it´s not so efficiently like Engineback Turbos or a Supercharger, but Ey Yo i got a Bi-Turbo Vette!"

But the Bottomline from my posting was, that GTP used simply the Concept from the Porsche 919 and says this is a GTP idea. The try to become a diffrence to the Porsche with a secong Turbo, just so that nobody have to say "it´s copied by Porsche ******s" it´s a Fail. It´s doesn´t works because you have no stable Exhaust-Gas Stream/Flow.


In the WEC/LeMans Series you have no limitations about the Enginesize, that´s right. But you have a forced limitation for the Petrol consumtion for each Round and the amount of energy in Megajoukle. By the Hybrid Racecars you have performance Subclasses for the Hybridsystems, 2-4-6-8 Megajoule Subclass. Audi has the biggest Engine this Season, but they Hybridsystem is in the 2-Megajoule Subclass. Porsches Hybridsystem is in the 6-Megajoule Subclass, so they have less Petrol for each Round like Audi. Toyota are in the 6-Megajoule Class to, but they don´t used an extra Energy producing System in the Exhaust like Porsche. So Porsche used the most amount of energy from his Hybridsystem, also have much less amount of energy from the Petrol. This is why they used the smalest Engine.

No the tempurature of the exhaust gasses doesn't make a difference at all. The exhaust gas FLOW is just spinning a turbine as they flow by, its ONLY the movement of the gas that spins the turbine not the heat at all. Heat makes no difference.



No it doesn't effect power at all. The exhaust gas flow spins the turbine, that spins the turbo shaft that then spins another turbine in the intake to force air in. The volume going into the engine is not affected by heat aside from oxygen levels & that's why we have an intercooler, to cool the intake air to get more oxygen from equal volume.



Rear mounted turbo, they aren't backwards, just on the rear end of the car.

The turbos are bigger for the same boost levels, there is the charge pipe going from the back of the car to the engine bay that need to get charged up. Boost levels are not as high as in engine bay kits because its a balance between turbo size and turbo lag. Turbos these days are fast, but its still a lot of charge pipe.

The reason to go rear mount turbo is specific to each build, but a few reasons to do so is turbos take up a lot of room and heat up the engine bay quite a bit most need a good intercooler, turbo kits are complicated installs that require a lot of stuff in a tight fit engine bay. Rear mount turbo takes the turbo out of the engine bay, so its not going to heat up the engine a whole lot no need for an intercooler and its much less complicated often installs can be done in a couple of hours. It also comes off quick for a trip to the dealership or what not. Boost is not limited to pulley sizes you can manipulate boost delivery.

Im not saying go buy a Rear Mount Turbo or buy one over a Supercharger, each has their own pros and cons.



Maybe so, but they are theorizing a 2 stroke and it looks as though they pieced the theoretical idea together without looking at the 919, don't get me wrong its a bad idea for a VGT, & I got no love for GTP but I don't believe they ripped off the 919 even if the 2 are similar. The 919 is bound by regulations that VGT cars would be silly to impose those restrictions without those restrictions.

The exhaust gas flow issue you have is not even a point of context as they are theorysing a 2 stroke not 4 stroke (The theory ends at 2 stroke & turbo boost not mixing) If they opt to go 4 stroke, they CAN twin turbo it, 2 turbos on a 4 stroke V4 is fine if they wanted to just small turbos... Why you don't think there will be enough exhaust flow to spin a turbo I do not know, but there certainly is. Maybe not if the engine was restricted to like 500rpm or something silly like that, but there is simply no reason they cant Twin Turbo a 4 Stroke V4

Also on a theoretical 4 stroke V4 I would prefer 1 turbo vs the twin set up, Id put a big ass one on there and High boost it lol

Hold on a sec

Here

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Twin Turbo V4

Is that evidence enough that you can Twin Turbo a V4 & its not like its a big one lol

You can turbo a Lawnmower if you wanted to, Ive seen it. The same with RC Nitro 2 strokes, Ive seen lil mini turbos on them too. Ive not seen them make any power leaning out the mixture wont though. These engine use oil in the gas for lube so its important to have a good mixture, if anything a lil rich vs a lil lean. Boosting 2 strokes IMO sometimes appear to make power as you get tricked on the carb setting it rich, but it gets leaned out by the turbo blowing out the mixture, I also theorize it will clash with the supercharger effect of the tuned pipe. In my experience a good tuned pipe on a 2 stroke makes better gains.

sinister i lov3 u

Dayum dude got banned, fuck I've probably been on that line a few times

Ok, i think we have a communikation Issue based on my crappy English.

First the Engine Pictur is a V6 Twin-Turbo, not a V4.

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Ok listen, i try to explain.

When we have a 4 Zylinder Engine with 2000ccm. Each combustion Chamber has 500ccm, it´s doesn´t matter which Enginestyle you got. The most importand Point is, how much amount of energy can u use with the 500ccm. Is the petrol/air mixture cold you got a higher amount of energy, because the Air and Petrol Molecules are cold smaller and you got a higher Density/Concetration inside this 500ccm.

A Turbocharger pre-compressed the petrol/air mixture was results in a higher filling range from the Combustion Chamber. This compressed Amount of Energy got released after the combustion as thermal energy. The Exhaust Gas Flow are everytime the same, because you has an limitation with the 500ccm for each combustion chamber, but a Turbocharger used the combustion energy/Thermal energy to pre-commpressed the petrol/air mixture.

I´m sorry, this is the best i got with my english.

2 Turbocharger on a 4 Zylinder Engine doesn´t works well, because with the ignition firing order you hasn´t a stable Exhaust-Gas-Flow-Stream. The ignition firing order is allways 1-3-2-4. You used the Exhaust-Gas-flow from 2 Zylinder for each Turbocharger. But you have everytime a cut in the Exhaust-Gas-Stream, it´s doesn´t matter how small is the Turbocharger. It´s not the same like an 6 Zylinder Engine, where you can choose 1 Big Turbo for a higher HP output, or 2 smaller ones for a better response.

Oh i havn´t seen that GTP say it´s a 2-Stroke Engine. Sounds like an Scooter Guy Idea hahahaha. Dude i´m really sure someone there, with absolutly Zero knowing about Engines has simply copied the Concept from the Porsche and modified it. It´s 100% the same like Porsche says on hith Homepage. The only difference are the Second Turbocharger and the 2-Stroke thing.

Yeah I get tripped up on your English a bit, but I respect the effort communicating in a different language, Ill try to read it a few times before replying.



Nice find on that engine. I missed that, lol maybe because of the size, . I still don't follow why its not going to work. Check out V-Twins that got a turbo, double up and its a Twin Turbo V4. We are on the same page. Im not talking about working well or being the best route to take, I think the idea is dumb its just not impossible in my eyes and theories can go both ways no sense digging too deep into it. , I wouldn't go near a V4 unless I was putting it on a KART or Bike lol I wouldn't waist my time twin turboing it either lol

Flipping hilarious they are talking about a 2 stroke

The 919 is interesting but a different breed of engine vs a production car. I wouldn't go that rout if it wasn't a solution to a restriction, at the same time new tech like Direct Port injection, continuously variable valve times and stuff like that can get stuff that would of never worked 10 years ago running today like it was meant to.

Its possible they copied the idea, but I think its just a cowinkydink they sorta progressively added stuff to it like, trying to vote out the details, and that makes it even funnier to me, because its a community bad idea but nobody is like Yo 2 stroke V4 TT are you kidding lol.

Yeah check this out

Test done with my very well balanced XKR // 603PP // Racing Hard Tires around High Speed Ring.
Best time reached with camber.3.2/2.4
0/0 camber , it´s easy to feel a difference, the car feel less smooth on smooth driving inputs trying to maintain on the max grip.
At 3.2/2.4 camber you can feel the front grip helping to balance the rear out of the line , giving a bit more eagerness during the long curve. The car tracks around the corners like its on rails.
Below 1.0 it´s very clear that you can´t maintain the line and the result is that you loose time because the car cannot maintain itself at the inside of the corner loosing grip.

So in my opinion and only in my opinion , nothing change camber = max grip if you tune it right. Stupid tuning like raising front and rear camber equally is never going to find a good set up with camber if they keep tuning incorrectly using glitch tuning they will be blind to the truth until they wake up and start using more real world tuning practices...