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What is BULLSHIT about that last post is I posted test results but I didnt show ANY testing info, just my interpretation of the result. WHERE are the results??????

Okay okay, if yall know me at all, you know I don't fuck around like that. If I test something and make a conclusion I show the test data that I use to draw the conclusion.

That last post of mine is simply my interpretation of results that are the polar opposite to Parianos interpretation of his test results. BUT because neither of us posted data, neither of us can confirm or even see how the other came to their conclusion aside from what they tell us. Fucking BULLSHIT. If you are confident in your testing you post the data, simple as that, no data means the interpretations of results they post are not worth the junk I clean out from between my toes.

Whats the situation

SO GTP decided to do some Camber testing, I figured Id sit back and watch. They are using MoTeC to analyze the data so I figured this is a great opportunity to get some test data that I have no influence on. Watching pretty much ONE GUY provide all the test data (In my eyes all posting opinions and shit, but wont post any of the test data are full of shit) So I sit back and let the data collect, but they are making a fundamental mistake collecting the data. Instead of posting the MoTeC files, they write down the results, but Only min and max cornering speed and max G, BUT they are not using the average G, they are noting the max and min that include spikes. Proper data analysis calls for us to compare the average G because the spikes go all over the place, its obvious just looking at them.

I had no choice but to pop in and inform them of the noting of average G instead of max/min spikes. I figerred I might as well sugest the motec files get posted so the data can be shared and checked out by all nit just writing down the stuff they think is important without any way to confirm the data when its as simple as posting the file they are already looking at on the PC.

Neither suggestion was listenned to, They say they basically try to control the spikes with driving smooth (what the fuck?!?!?) and for no reason they wont post the motec files, and keep on noting spikes only no average g. They wont even post a snap shot of the data, WTF, this is fucking retarded.

So they are doing fuck all in my eyes, but I still let the data come in (the BS data) Surprisingly there is only one driver mostly posting data and his testing shows 2.0 camber giving his best lap times. Im a little bit surprised, but I sit back and watch how they look at these results.

MORE FUCKING BULLSHIT

They start to discount the results saying despite the lap times with the camber putting down the fastest lap they feel the collected data through the track (min max speed and G min max) were not showing the camber clearly improving grip, they discount it for the most part saying they need to go to other tracks to collect data (good idea to coolect more data at various tracks, but not worth spit if they keep ignoring the average g looking at min and max spikes, its clearly because they have no clue about ACTUAL car tuning, seriously.

So King DipShit Pariano comes in with his conclusions sans any fucking data and my last post is a mirror of his with polar opposite results. HOWEVER unlike Pariana I'm not full of shit.

I took the same car GTP is testing at HSR and on the FIRST DAY on GTP Testing I put down this lap



Its faster than all the laps GTP have done in the weeks since the testing started lol I spent a hour dialing in the camber to the track and cut a lap a half second faster than their Day 1 laps and WITH NO ABS vs their testing on RH tires still using ABS, so I just left it alone until they catch up because I know they will look at the set up on the car with the fastest lap and say its the best, and usually this comes after sandbagging camber, and I can cut a faster lap then their 0 camber, I did it wit the the S206 WRX and a few others like the Aventador at Ascari.

From the outside looking in the data they have still is showing the Camber set up running the fastest lap so Mr Pariano has to come in and interject his BULLSHIT as he is a lead promoter of zero camber having the best cornering grip, his theory is camber above 0 progressively reduces grip across the board.

He post his interpretation of test results but not one stitch of actual data, he doesn't even type any of the numbers, he simply post his conclusion. What kind of BULLSHIT is this. How do people take this idiot seriously.

Now I go cut my fastest lap in the XKR at HSR and post this with 3.2/2.4 Camber faster than all laps done at GTP and again no fucking ABS assist.

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They have yet to post anything remotely close. That simple snap is data, the motec file should be the obvious thing to post and interpret all they like, the data being availible for others to look at and make their own interpretation and at least see how they come to their conclusions. The fact they dont post ANY fucking data tells me they are either really fucking stupid or hiding shit.

Am I the only one who can see through Bullshit?

Im not surprised the guys like Motor City Hammi and Pariano who lead the charge of camber zero being the best and shit talking set ups that use camber, laughing at those who use camber. Yet these 2 fucking AssClowns have NOT posted any data, why the fuck not. If they are so certain about camber being broken and so confident in their conclusions why have they not posted ANY fucking data to show it. Because they are selling Bullshit. They have been so imposing with saying cambers broken, to admit they were wrong would discredit all the bullshit they have spewed at GTP, its about maintaining credibility above all else. Its a SAD STATE at GTP....


If you brows GTP, don't be fooled by the confidence of the Idiot Brigade the General Opinions or "GTP Consensus" should be ignored at all times, simple as that.

This is a very interesting point and maybe highlights where GTP is having issues understanding tuning cars




They have the order wrong, and while this may not seem like a big deal, it changes everything.

They are saying "The basic function of camber is to help create the largest contact patch between the tyre and the road" and to check the tune """"When evaluating the camber adjustments you have made, if the inner edge of the tire is hotter than outer edge, you have too much camber and you need to decrease the negative camber, but if the outer edge is hotter than inner edge, there is not enough negative camber, so you need to increase negative camber.""""

Actually Camber is used to maximize the use of our tires across the full lap and full race.

You might be thinking
"Hey man thats pretty much the same thing."

It is not. By adding ANY camber we are making the contact patch bigger at one point but smaller at another. By that fact alone we are NOT adding camber to simply increase contact patch because raising camber doesn't increase the tires contact patch equally across the lap, and in fact reduces the contact patch at point as well as increase it at other points.

Adding camber is to balance the use of our tires across the life of the tire and depends on the demands of the car on the track.

Now its said we have no way to tune camber in the game as we do in real life, that is incorrect. although we dont have tep checks across the tires as we do IRL we still have the life of the tires to go by and THIS is the main focus of all our efforts.

If your camber is tuned right, the LIFE OF THE TIRES IS EXTENDED. Because the camber makes the most use of the tires patch potential they last longer. IRL in addition to temp check we look at wear patterns as poorly tuned camber wears out the tires on the portions that do make contact faster lowering the life of the tire.

I don't understand how people don\t realize this simple fact. In GT6 if your camber is tuned to the track (correctly not blind random numbers lol) the tires will last longer than Zero camber AND they will have more useable grip across the life of the tire.

Its NOT so much about a super hot lap, but about the tires life and potential during that life.


The Life of the tire SURE IS something you can measure LMFAO and this is the reason behind all the this and that in tuning camber, flat contact patch even temps & proper wear patterns are all to try and get the longest life out of our tires with the most grip during that life. We can also get an idea while driving by looking at the tire temp as we drive. Sure its by colour but so what, lighting up your tires red and finding camber tuning to reduce how much and how often they go red can be done as I do it all the time.

Not to forget the more or less trailing smoke while cornering is a fucking clue

The only problem with this in a GTP style community is that what works is also dependent on the driver. 2 different drivers can find different settings work best for them, as with most everything suspension, aero etc. The only thing we cn show in GT6 to actually show camber at work is show tires lasting longer in the same race and wearing out more evenly.

My Aventador is the perfect example of this on Sport Medium Tires set up for the Ascari Race Resort Weekend No TCS, No ABS, NO ASSIST AT ALL not even driving line.



Showing Perfectly Balanced Tire wear and the tires outlasting my gas while ripping up the track aggressively.


The Process is called TUNING

For the Aventador, I entered the Ascari Race Resort & run until I wear out the tires or run out of gas then exit the rce and make the adjustments I feel will help based on the handling, feel, and how long my tires last front vs rear. I try to level them out, my goal to get the tires to wear out as evenly as possible and last for the most laps while being able to push the car across the laps cutting race winning lap times. When I got them where I like I complete the race. My tuning done DURING the race, not by myself hot lapping as if the race is just a Time Trial as it is not. There are other cars on the track and its about where Im at at the end of the race goal being first place.

The end result is the fastest race time, and tires that outlast the gas and all 4 tires have the same number when gas runs out.

I posted this shit at GTP Soooooo fucking long ago its not even funny challenging anybody to rip up the lap time, and gave them the opportunity to show zero camber making the tires last as long as mine or wear out as evenly. I got BANNED lol.....

Motor City Hammi decided to take the data and make a chart out of it, but he Excluded all of the MAIN TESTERS data probably because the fastest lap was with -2.0 camber lol However the results he did use are still interesting Its no secrete I don't agree with how they are doing their testing, but I also don't agree with how they interpret data, and as I look at data and their interpretation it becomes even more evident.

They look at this as proving Camber zero has the most grip even though camber zero did not post the fastest lap and had lower gs up to -3 degrees.

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Umm even with their fucked up testing at High Speed Ring it shows they are interpreting data however they like, I focus on turn 3 and 4 as they are not banked corners and CLEARLY they show buddies -1.0 camber lap showing the highest G s (it would be -2.0 on the main guy providing data) but it also shows that the gs stay higher and dont drop down to zero camber levels until -3 degrees camber is applied.

Motor City Fraud didnt use the main test guys data for no good reason aside from he didnt want to manually enter his data. WHAT THE FUCK, Bullshit you didn't include them because you don't like the results, be honest you snake rat degenerate piece of shit.

That CLEARLY shows a 3 degree window above ZERO where grip is higher than at zero and its not until the cars running too much camber for the specific corners of that track with that driver in that car do they fall below zero camber.


EVEN THE DATA THEY POST PROVES CAMBER IS PROVIDING MORE G BUT THEY INTERPRET IT AS THE EXACT OPPOSITE WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS BULLSHIT

GTP has thousands of members how is it nobody has the BALLS to speak up. Maybe Im too good of an example of why not to. Seriously though I am incapable of being a Bitch like that. I will speak up even if I get perma banned on Bann watch 24/7 as I am and I wear it PROUDLY, if only more GTP members would grow a set.



Its funny as I got data from the SpecDB Im able to use the data on MULTIPLE CARS to confirm my theories, but I'm also able to see none of the GTP Theories have panned out, every fucking theory they have is ass backwards from AssClowns. Its a sad state as the biggest issue IMO is the moderators selling bullshit and protecting morons selling bullshit.

GTP Testing is fundamentally flawed. They look at data that shows camber up to 3 degree providing more grip than zero, and they see this as meaning zero camber has the most Grip, is this the fucking Twilight Zone WHAT THE FUCK....


Motor City Hammi decided to take the data and make a chart out of it, but he Excluded all of the MAIN TESTERS data probably because the fastest lap was with -2.0 camber lol However the results he did use are still interesting Its no secrete I don't agree with how they are doing their testing, but I also don't agree with how they interpret data, and as I look at data and their interpretation it becomes even more evident.

They look at this as proving Camber zero has the most grip even though camber zero did not post the fastest lap and had lower gs up to -3 degrees.

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Umm even with their fucked up testing at High Speed Ring it shows they are interpreting data however they like, I focus on turn 3 and 4 as they are not banked corners and CLEARLY they show buddies -1.0 camber lap showing the highest G s (it would be -2.0 on the main guy providing data) but it also shows that the gs stay higher and dont drop down to zero camber levels until -3 degrees camber is applied.

Motor City Fraud didnt use the main test guys data for no good reason aside from he didnt want to manually enter his data. WHAT THE FUCK, Bullshit you didn't include them because you don't like the results, be honest you snake rat degenerate piece of shit.

That CLEARLY shows a 3 degree window above ZERO where grip is higher than at zero and its not until the cars running too much camber for the specific corners of that track with that driver in that car do they fall below zero camber.


EVEN THE DATA THEY POST PROVES CAMBER IS PROVIDING MORE G BUT THEY INTERPRET IT AS THE EXACT OPPOSITE WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS BULLSHIT

GTP has thousands of members how is it nobody has the BALLS to speak up. Maybe Im too good of an example of why not to. Seriously though I am incapable of being a Bitch like that. I will speak up even if I get perma banned on Bann watch 24/7 as I am and I wear it PROUDLY, if only more GTP members would grow a set.



Its funny as I got data from the SpecDB Im able to use the data on MULTIPLE CARS to confirm my theories, but I'm also able to see none of the GTP Theories have panned out, every fucking theory they have is ass backwards from AssClowns. Its a sad state as the biggest issue IMO is the moderators selling bullshit and protecting morons selling bullshit.

Hahahahaaha....wait, wait, i need a breath.......Hahahahaaa.

Well what´s wrong with this Guys hu?

It´s look like they doesn´t realized, that Camber does not the same on the Front/Rear Axel. And they absolutly doesn´t know how Camber works in combination with Toe. Hahahaa Yeah Zero Camber for the best grip and then -Toe on the Front for better Cornering tss tss tss. Really, they must style his Headhair with an Hammer, every Day! My Pro-Tip for those Guys: Take a Gun, hold this on your stupid Head and hit the fucking Trigger!


Ok so i would to have post something usefull. I have make a Setup for a Friend of me, for Longruns on LeMans, Nürburgring and other Tracks. He has defently not a big chance to win, because the Host of the Race and his stupid Friends says, Balance of Performance means only 3,14kg/HP. This is Bullshit and is only the stock Value from the Audi R8 LMS, so suprise suprise the only Car that has an real chance against the Audi is the Z4 GT3. Maybe the Mercedes SLS GT3, but my Friend have to drive the Corvette C6 LM Racecar, with -20pp and you must use the Powerlimiter to have 3,14kg/HP. I do some Testruns with this Guys on LeMans and Nürburgring, while cornering they has no chance, but on the Straights the vette has not enough Power.

So i would to have a Setup, that works with little tweaks on every Track. I´m not really down with DataLogger Tools or something like that, i look how it feel and my secret how it looks. I drive only in Chaseview, because i´m not real sit in the Car, so i doesn´t feel with my Body what the Car is doing. In Chaseview i see what the Car do, why i lost grip in some corners or works the Susspension well under Weighttransfer or shifting.

Maybe u try my Setup for some rounds on the Nürburgring 24H Track and tell me what do you think. Well i´m on DS3 and for me it feels really good. Tire waering is balanced Front/Rear/right/Left and i mean it´s really Quick.

Corvette C6 LM Race Car ´06

Oilchange, Chassy Stiffnessblablabla, No engine Tuning
Power Limiter: 77,6
Weight: +160Kg +10 Rear
Spoiler: 230/380

-Suspension-

Heigh: 80/80
Springs: 15,30/15,10
Inbound: 4/4
Outbound: 6/5
Antiroll: 4/4
Camber: 2,4/1,8
Toe: 0,18/-0,10
Breakes: 6/6

-Transmission-

Max Speed: 280Km/h
Finalgear: 4400
1. 2,795
2. 1,968
3. 1,436
4. 1,135
5. 0,930
6. 0,795

LS 30/15/18


Did you remember to the GT6 Demo, with the GT Academy Stuff. The first what i see while i drive the 370Z was, that it looks like the Car has a fixed point in the middle Right/Left, and while Cornering the cars goes on the outer corner side exactly the same way down like on the inner side up. I mean in real life are the Tyres on the Ground and the Suspension works over the Chassi, in the Demo it doesn´t looks like that. There it looks there are 3 ponits, the Tyres and the fixed point in the middle. i was wondering in GT6 on Drifting, that you can see the weight transfer from Side to side, it doesn´t matter how Stiff are the Springs or Dampers. But you doesn´t have WeightTransfer like this while Drifting in real life, because you goes sideways over the griplevel and keeps the Car stable because the Spinning reartyres keep pressure to the Fronttyres.

What i does on my Driftsetups is, that i raised the rear ARB to 6 or 7 and set Springs/Dampers to maximum grip. Camber and Toe still Zero on the Rear. On the Front i set like a Grip Setup without Toe but with High Camber. This works so fucking well Dude, now snappy reactions on the rear, you can control the Driftangle easy cheese with the throttle and makes more points like the 3,5 Camber in the Rear with 200kg +50 Idiots, they allways challange against his own Car while Driftng.

So i´m pretty sure, you have still this 3 Points in GT6. I can´t believe that PD build a completly new Physik after the GT6 Demo.

Yeah, been having tough time sleeping last few days haven't played all that much, I'll try out that set up tomorrow

A new Day is rising at GTP

A member who knows what hes talking about has stepped up and has a much better ability than I for tolerating GTP BS. I recognize that my approach and aggressive nature are probably what cause me issues there however its deserved there is a history behind it.

Its the first I see a member jumping in on the Camber & Toe subject and everything hes saying is SPOT on and his ability to deal with everybody is Presidential, I do not have that level of diplomacy, its a self issue, Im working on it.

I must say Tip Of The Hat, Nuff Respect to OdeFinn from Finnland who may be the first member to break through at GTP in reguards to camber and toe tuning to the masses.

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Every Post this Gentleman has made has been RAZOR SHARP, I would literally offer this man a spot in RaZerZ Edge Tuning Garage if he would join NGU.

Are you sure?

Did you have seen the last postings from him? He is still a Internet Tuner like the other ones, but i believe he is thinking when PD implement Camber in the Game there must have a function, just to say Camber is broken doesn´t work for him.

But he says smart things like:



Bullshit! To switch the input method from DS3 to a Wheel doesn´t make the Game more realism, because it´s still a Game with Game Physiks. It doens´t matter because you don´t sit in a Real Car, you don´t connectet with your whole Body to your Car, you doesn´t can feel what the Car do on the fly. With a Wheel you has much more sensetive in the Steering for sure, but this still on the Game based Physiksengine.

Then the Next Pro-Racedriver Ridox2JZGTE said:



OdeFinn answered



What what what?

Well he is still on the same way like the other Internet Kiddies, he doesn´t know about the different effects from Camber on Front/rear Axle, plus he doesn´t know that the Toe settings combinatet with Camber has other effects like Toe without Camber. And come on, they look at the Lap times between zero Camber and 0.6 Camber, that´s rediclious for real. In real live Mercedes AMG gives the C63 Coupe Performance Edition 2.8 Camber for better steering and cornering and they still have dynamic Camber with the Multilink Style Susspension Geometry, they doesn´t have doubble wishbones on Front or Rear, and this Guys would Talk about realism by Camber Settings like 0.6? The complete Susspension Setting they used for the Camber testing Laptimes is a piece of Shit.

Maybe he has the right thinking about, and he speaking the true about the things he knowed. But what he know about Susspensions, Weightshifting effects on the Susspension and the whole topic is the same stupid bullshit like the other Guys there.

What did you know about my theory, that the Cars has a fixed Point right in the middle between Right/Left and from this point works the Gamephysik for each side? Also the each side from the Car has no dynamic effects to the other side. In the GT Academy GT6 Demo u see this really hard on the 370Z, like the car hangs on a fixed Point and the Susspension got while cornering on the inner side 100% the same travels to the outer side get compressed.

In my Eyes that works pretty well with the things that you´ve been found, that the Rideheigh doesn´t changes on the Susspension dynamics. It also works with this how like the Toe works in the Game.

Im not sure where your getting that from but the post I read from him is position is correct, on understanding and usable application. The same for Highlander who is the first I see pointing out the methods of there testing do not yield tangible results. Testing needs to be done is a correct way to get useable results and it seems most parties there "testing" havent a clue about how to go about testing it let alone capable of interpreting results.




I disagree, Dont be offended or upset but the fact of the matter is the DS3 uses additional assist the wheels do not and without these assist the DS3 experience would be much different. When testing pretty much anything I believe we need to eliminate all asssits that affect results and the assist in the DS3 do so. Its not speaking down to DS3 users or to say DS3 users cant get a realish experience from GT6 its just ssimply wen testing physics assist have no place and there is no way to remove the assist from a DS3. That's not to say a DS3 users cant test physics etc, but they should be able to acknowledge and accept there is a lot of assist still involved and the test will not yield as definitive results as the same test don with no forced assist.



Ridox is a sharp cat but most of his theories are backwards for example he thinks the toe values are "total toe" a combination of both sides added together and its clearly not the case each side gets the input angle clearly.

So while I cant help but like the guy, not much he say on tuning is worth listening to.






I agree as he is using toe in relation to camber thrust and his explanation is SPOT ON Correct. The Camber = Toe in reffers to Camber thrust from increased camber angle having a sorta toe in effect. Adding toe in results in toe in plus camber thrust toe in type effect resulting in more toe in effect. Camber thrust can be cancelled out with toe out as the toe out counters the Camber thrust Toe in effect.

He is also not speaking his mother language so his words need to be looked at a bit careful to get the full meaning such as your post I need to read them a few times to be sure I get the message without jumping to conclusions.



Ive not seen him speak on all of that and I dont get the same impression as you from the post of his Ive read. I think on the camber subject he is very much on point and Ive not found a post of his in that thread I disgree with, all his points are ones I would of raised and he is keeping his cool quite nicely IMO. I tip My Hat To him & Highlandor. Not sure if they realize the wall of stupidity they are up against lol



I get a very different impression, Ive not seen his other postings on various subjects but I give him a tip hat for what Ive seen so far.




Ill have to take a bit of time to go over this section of your post before I reply to it to get a full understanding of the message and reply to it when I can. I am very interested in your point of view and so I will give it a proper looking at.