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Ok maybe my words was a way to hart.

I would´t stay OdeFinn in a bad Light, looks like he is a smart nice Guy.

But, he does the same mistakes like the other one´s. Look at the Susspension Setup that the Guys use for Camber Testing. This Setup will never ever works fine with any Camber settings, i mean it´s bullshit at all and Camber wouldn´t make it better. Then the same Camber settings on Front/Rear, that´s will never work fine to for better Laptimes.

This means, they take a fully stupid Setup what only one thing does fine, eliminate Weightshifting or Weighttransfer to make Zero Camber usefull, put on this the same Camber to Front/Rear and says then "Yo this ain´t works real, camber is broken blablabla.".

Of course are the things right what odeFinn says, but it is senseless to use this with a broken Setup to speak against a broken Camber Theory. And he don´t say anything about this, that u need a setup with controlled Weight effects to make Cambersettings usefull. He wouldn´t say at first, that the same Camber on Front/Rear are not the right way to use Camber.


So i´ve been some races against Friends of me. I don´t have any real Races for over a Year, mostly drifting for Fun. I havn´t played much GT6 at all for this time, because i was really pissed that Guys with Zero Camber Pseudo Setups are faster then me. Meanwhile it comes two Physikupdates to the Game. So i watch for this "Zero Camber Pseudo Setup" Guys and found them while Race GT300 525PP Racing Hart Tyres.

I set my AsparaDrink RX7 new, with my new knowledge from here plus my own opinion how the Gamephysiks works, and tadaa first race i lost, because my Tranny was to long on Spa. Second race with right Tranny i won, Best Laptime 4 Seconds under the other Guys. So at all we race 5 times on Spa for 5 Rounds and everytime i win. We only did short races with 5 rounds and without Tyrewearing, also every round 100% Hotlapping. Next on Fuji, first race i won with over 8 Seconds and i doesn´t any changes or little tweaks on my Setup because it´s another Track. Next four races on Fuji i won to, the other Guys switched the Cars, do this and that on his settings and much blablablabla together about his Setups. ah and it was 4 Guys, two of them with Wheel.

So the Gamephysiks works pretty well for me now. Edjucation and Experience from Real Life, in the right way used in the Game results in u Win Races.

I'm really sorry to abduct this thread at this point, but.. NtodaD, is there any chance you're a native german speaker?

OdeFin is alright


EVERY SINGLE aspect of the GTP testing is retarded and as if its a bunch of outsiders looking in. Some folks who read a bunch of stuff about something but never actually seen any of it for themselves outside youtube.

At GTP just telling them one little thing they have said or done is wrong creates a big ass shit storm, so you kinda have to trick them into it. Make them think they are breing swayed only a little bit but open the curtains to reveal the full truths with no where to hide behind bullshit. They are sqweeeemy like cockroaches and can alwys run to "I did some laps and camber slowed be down" dumb shit so its a touchy subject and its best to go ONE thing at a TIME. Get them understand some of the CORE Principles in camber and understanding how to use it lol its going to have to be one step at a time.


Now we also have to realize while we all use the same principles and techniques and there are some GENERAL NO NO That's WRONG, quite often 2 identical cars in a race side by side by for 2 different teams, if either team had a look at the other guys tune they will often think they got it all wrong bad combinations etc, however jump in the same car having never seen the settings and there is potential to see things differently thinking the set up is brilliant based on how it handles alone.

This is why I test their car still, because you never know. However GTP tunes when ABS is turned off are the worst cars Ive ever driven in GT and its a damn shame thats the biggest board, but is mostly because they are bookworms for data on the game, and as far as finding info for the game they cant be beat, at least the non hidden data, q-k and FSX are the best source for the hidden stuff & when the GTP whistleblower is talking about "other guys on another board posted this" is these guys hes referring too & even the GTP top dog whistle blower has voiced there are guys that can see deeper than he, its them hes speaking of.. I mean they had the used car dealership cycles all slit into list and shit, who the fuck has the time to do something like that, I dont get it, but I used the list LMFAO



Thats the truth. Much of the trick is figuring out how the suspension in GT6 works a its core, and then intelligently applying real world techniques where applicable and the game is geared to use real world techniques and principles using them yields cars that behave predictable and as we expect them to. GTP mixed matched up WTF set ups drive like space ships and none I've ever tried from that site have ever given me the feeling as if I were hammering a track, and I get that from this game despite sitting on my couch with a toy wheel looking at a TV screen when the cars are set up to behave like they do in the real world.

Example

Dolhaus posted the accumulated results of the tests at GTP so far. Before we can even begin to test correctly or point out whats wrong with their testing we can look at how they are interpreting results of test.

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According to this chart they believe the sweet spot is between zero and -1.5deg camber....

If you look at the data it clearly shows that at zero deg and at -3deg and only then does the performance start to drop. This shows that pretty much anything above zero below -3deg will be better than zero.

This is just looking at the lap times not even looking at the individual corers yet. The zero camber laps running on average 1:05.70 at zero and 1:05.76 with -3deg. So clearly anything above zero and below -3 is better than zero and above -3.

Thats with blind equal camber. Imagine if they offset it correctly giving each side the right amount, the gains could of been even more and the angles more aggressive....

BUT We cant even get to the rest of the test until we get past how the data is interpreted. The info they are looking at that we see shows benefits up to -3deg, but they only recognize up to -1.5 this is a serious issue, how will they understand any of this if they cant see this as its so fucking clear as day.

Even at -2dg the average is 1:05.65 and that's still better/faster than zero, so why do they not recognize it? Because they have preached any thing above 1.5 being outside the realm of using camber to, in their twisted theory, remove overall grip with camber to go faster. Its pretty obvious that from the data they have the grip level has a curve, it goes up from zero and doesn't get back to zero grip levels until its on the downward slope of too much camber for the set up. That being around -3deg for that stiff ass set up.

The data is showing ANYTHING above zero is better than ero, and it doesn't drop to zero levels until the camber gets too aggressive for the set up and it show that the camber gets too aggressive for that set up around -3 deg. Its basic shit, but a lot of BS selling going on is why they cant see it or refuse to.


Lets NOT forget my Day 1 of testing lap time is still faster than all 30 of their posted laps and we are on week 2 or 3 of testing. Not to forget my run done with zero ABS.


What I would like is more data to collect. \specifically from Motor City Hammy (Biggest mouth, but least action) JonnyPennso and Praiano to post up times. Anybody who says cambers broken should post up times. The fact guys like Motor City Bullshitter have not is just another red flag they are just shit talkers. Praiano did post times but didn't run the car tuned correctly and got D-Q'ed rightfully so lol no surprise hes a complete tool.

It gets more revealing as I break down the corners BUT its late, thats for tomorrow. Good track for corner break down, you'll see.

LoooL.

Ok now, i would try it by myself, maybe i make me a GTP account only to look then Idiot´s my Time. Track was Highspeed ring with the Jag XKR right? What was the PP? Wieght are forced? Tyres? ............

got to check the site for the tune, try it out. I went ahead and built it to spec, but tuned the suspension as I like including offset camber.


Its a baby step thing at GTP and like dealing with an autistic toddler.

Remember its not everybody, just the handful of vocal idiots who act like the site gurus and post whore anything thing thing that doesn't conform. Most realize you don't argue with idiots because from a distance its hard to tell who the idiot is. This problem of fake ass posers at GTP tho has gotten out of hand because nobody can step up and shut them down without the bann hammer coming out, they play passive aggressive games like pro champions its a sad site.

Ive flipped the script on them a few times, but once they realize its me they flag a modd and they ban me then delete the evidence.

Hey sin, was just reading up on this thread (which you put a lot of quality time into) and I have 1 question. Do you think/feel that the gt6 physics are indeed a reflection of real life car capabilities and movement. I was really noticing that even with all aids off, sometimes the driver still reduces full turning mobility. I don't use a wheel so I wouldn't know anything pertaining to that feel.

Show up a smart Guy his Mistakes and he would say: Thank You!
Show up a stupid Guy his Mistakes and he would say: You are an Idiot!

Of course i don´t mean the whole GTP Community when i say "this GTP Idiots".


A keep thinking about the Gamephysics really hard, or better say my Brain can´t stop to thinking about. Maybe i (or we both) has not the real Viewing Point to figured out. The best way to understand things, or figured something out is: Go to the Starting Point!

What is the jumping Point for any Racinggame and what has the Physicsengine to do? That it "looks like" in real!
The real evolution since GT1, or other Racinggames in the last 15 Years, is it looks more and more like in Real. But the Gamebasic is still the same. We don´t move the Car over a real digital Racetrack, the Car is still fixed in the Screen and the Racetrack moves under the Car, but the Physicsengine makes that it looks like the car is moving.

So you has showed up, that the Game has dynamic Camber -2 to +2 degres. But i think this Camber has no effekt to the Gamephysics for cornering, this camber has an effect to the Visual part of the Gamephysic, special for things like HD Replays. Would this look real, when the Tyre doesn´t sit Flat on the Track while cornering? No it don´t.

For me it is meanwhile truely clear, that the Carphysics works over Three Axles. 1 Vertical for turning fixed to the 1 Horizontal they balanced Front to Rear. They are connectet to the 1 Horizontal they fixed in the middle between Right side and left Side. When the Carbalance showed 50:50, then are the Vertical+Horizontal right in the middle between Front- and Rearaxle.

This would explain how the Spoiler setting works, when it only put Weight on this point. Than the Rearspoiler are behind the Rearaxle, so it puts weight only on the Rear Tyres, but doesn´t effects to the balance between Front/Rearaxle, for the Frontspoiler the same. That the whole Car get pressed to the Ground with Higher Spoiler settings and higher Speed, is only a Visual thing, because the Car are on a fixed point on the Screen. It looks like the Car goes down, but in real the Ground goes up.

This would also explain, why it´s makes no diffrence how you Set the Damper exbound, you has Visual everytime the Same Weighttransfer from Side to Side. Only the ARB has an effect, how much the Body roll ingame. In Real life the exbound setting has an effect to the Body Roll, because both Tyres on each Axle are connected to the Ground for real, not for it "looks like".

Right this makes the diffrence between Arcarde and Simulation, between a good Simulation and a crap Simulation. The good one combinated the Drivingphysics with the Visualphysics so well, that it looks and feels like in real.

Well i hope so much, that you understand what i mean lol.

I see the 2 visual and physics work together.

In the end the physics is just math, and the visual use the same math

+ 4 deg roll camber subtract 2 deg camber gain and subtract 2deg static camber = zero angle

Visually and physics wise

The tire is given a grip level associated with its tires and optimum patch dynamics

Toe settings angles the direction

Camber thrust curves the angle

Caster straightens out the wheel but also impacts dynamic camber angles with steering input

its complex and simple at the same time.

Slip angle is a matter of the grip level holding on an angle and the angular direction increasing or decreasing. A slight increase of grip with an angle vs no angle and a sharp drop off when the maximum angle is exceeded.

The visuals are a representation of the calculations being made, the end result is handling character. One could look at tuning as manipulating the transitions duration and end points.

The only visual representation that's questionable is tire flex

One could look at the fact tires sit a few millimeter sunk into the track (about the amount they are expected to flex) and the crossover could be representative of patch potential, more angle less crossover = small patch. While a flat tire has full crossover = full patch potential.

The visuals of the suspension working in relation to the vehicle performing are critical to the game if there were a separation of the 2 I would Frisbee GT6 like I did GT5.