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Yes I do to an extent. There are a few sides to this coin. Only car specifically made for GT6 take into account GT6 dynamics fully from acquisition of data to in the game. GT4, GT5P, and GT5 cars do not . Its my experience that cars built for GT6 specifically work best in GT6. So when I say a classic like the Ferrari 250 GT has epic feel it doesn't mean the 510 Nissan will be as well done, because it wont, its not. I have to then take into consideration it handles as I would expect but that's from experience driving a lot of different cars and not the 250 GT, not many in the GT community have if any. Put it all aside the car feels as I would expect it to.

But, and its a big one

There is a difference between real world suspension dynamics and GT6 suspension dynamics. I go over much of this in my suspension theories You must login or register to view this content. when I was able to confirm my theories using data from the SpecDB thanks to a source that provided me with much great stuff, but Id rather not blow them up so they get hounded by request.

PD has used brilliant techniques with KW data to recreate the feel of many cars in stock trim, on stock tires.

Its also important to only use ABS on cars that have ABS. As the Ferrari 250 GT feels very real with no ABS but fake as soon as ABS is used, HOWEVER cars like the M4 with super fine Ceramic Disk Brakes that run ABS that cannot be disabled feel more real with ABS on.

Unless the Resto Mod feel is whats being sought after, but this is not an authentic feel, and looses points at Concours d'Elegance.

When it comes to Tuning cars

These differences more or less are reflective in the slider levels behind the numbers and one doesn't have to know any of it so long as they apply proper technique to the sliders. PD has built it to be like so, simple and easy to tune 1200 cars without the need to get personally aquainted with the car as you do in real life. IRL years are spent on one car sometimes.

Think of GT6 tuning more about proper technique as a whole in general vs proper technique on a specific car per se.


Tuning mods in GT6 are different from modding the real car. Not real life per se, but the real car, no mods are real or really reflective of real life mod.

Power mods are power multipliers multiplying points in the power band. The real world can still be reflected in final numbers but not necessarily for the marked reasons. ie X mod + Y mod + Z mod in game results in similar power to car with X real life set up even if the 2 set ups are different so long as the numbers and power curve somewhat match. The real life curves I dont think will ever line up perfectly.

Weight is weight, if they line up they line up, using actual curb weight.

Suspension tuning is more of the same but the real world can have set ups reflective in the game

LSD tuning think of every 1 as a friction plate, a "2" on any setting has 2 friction plates, a "60" setting has 60 friction plates and thats as many as we can stuff in.

The Limits in GT6 are completely fictitious.

As far as power limits The AMS Alpha 12 GTR is a great example the real life car with soooo much more power than the in game version.

The same can be said for weight reductions, and chassis stiffness. IRL one could make a complete carbon fiber body etc if they had the cash and so choose to. IRL they we can also add roll bars and braces all over the place and cut wherever we like, there is just no limits really IRL.

With all the real suspension set ups we can recreate in GT6, we cannot recreate all real word set ups in the game. So yes and no. We can do a lot of realistic stuff in GT6 but we cannot go to the limits or match every real world set up. A car IRL can have more than 1 deg toe for example, remove roll bars or use much stiffer than we have in the game.

IRL we can keep adding friction plates to the LSD until its locked and so the range from our 60 friction disk to locked is unobtainable, or past our in game limit of tuning.

PD obviously for game sake had not much choice but to have limits. The limits of everything line up to each other. Suspensions can be tuned for max power, min weight, and max grip tires.

My approach has been very different to many having played GT since 1998/99 and I feel Ive looked at things differently with experience as a Mechanic & tuning + modifying my own cars and cars for customers and friends, so I have a different perspective than the average gamer whos been playing gt for a long time.

I cant get real feel for the game at all if there is a driving line and gear shift indicator manipulating my mind into thinking Im plotting braking points like I do at the track IRL. Only with them turned off and no assist do I feel as tho Im pushing limits at a track. One can run it so real as to consider a crash game over, next car for a few days as that one is under repair, so drive it like crashing it removes it from being driven & if I want to set some times with it I cant get too crazy.

But there is a Video Game Mentality that should be recognized

Many want to to quick tune for 5 min to jump in a quick match, tuning cars takes time IRL & In Game If applying a real world approach feeling out the car and settings. There is nothing quick about it. Or hot lap a million times hitting the corner the same way every time but progressively pushing the limits of each corner resetting after passing it and just toning it down a bit next run where the limit was passed,and going around the track finding the limit by passing it on each corner multiple times then after a week of doing so present a time as if thats reflective of a guy IRL hitting the track for 10 laps to set a hot lap.

Much of the experience we have is about how we approach the game.

Much of tuning is to maximize use of our tires for the life of the tires involving multiple pit stops across a race with many laps not just 10 or 20. & In this GT6 race environment many are using those assist like driving line and gear shift indicator to plot brake points etc every bodies using ABS on every car there and quite often very few pit stops if any, there is not all that much real about that as a race environment so people play along.

Some clubs get more serious and take it to longer races and more pit stops but they wont show you their set up, often they will say zero camber tunes get left at the pits as they run out of tire before any of the camber tunes.... I think that's funny, often you can learn so much from so little if you know what to look for or listen to.

I´m completely agree this.

This wasn´t the point what i mean.

The Gamephysics don´t work with the 4 Tyres as end points, because a Racinggame doesn´t coding like this. You don´t drove over the Track. The Car are fixed in the Screen and the Track, Trees, Clouds ......... are animated around the Car, but it "looks like" you Race the Track.

So the Gamephysics works with [url=X/Y/Z]https://www.oblivioninfo.de/images/e/xyz.gif[/url] as redirection points between the 4 Tyres. Or better saying the 3 axles are the Starting Points, the 4 Tyres are the Endpoints. The Weighttransfer from Side-to-side doesn´t works dynamic, like the Damper exbound on the Rightside has an effect over the ARB to the Leftside. Only the ARB setting with the X Axle as fixed point has an effect to the Weighttransfer. Lowering the Car results in less travel on each side because you lowering the X Axle. Lowering the X Axle has an directly effect to the Z Axle, because you has less travel in Front/Rear Susspension too, with the Z Axle as redirection point between Front/Rear Tyres. The Car Balance set the Z Axle between the Front/Rear Tyres and each leverage from the Z Axle as Starting point. And it set the Y Axle too, as Turning Point between Front/Rear Tyres.

Maybe you has seen, that i set the rear Toe to -10 for example. Because while Cornering, with the Weighttransfer to the outer Car Side, the Rear Outer Tyre can easy follow the line from the outer Front Tyre, with Y Axle as Car Turning Point. Most People set the Rear Toe to a + Value, thats like the real life and make generally sense. But with Y Axle as Turning Point, the Rear Outer Tyre looks more to the Front Inner Tyre and not to the line from the Front outer Tyre!

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What we don't have IRL is a fixed axis 3rd person perspective, the formulas and equations at 4 points to generate the grip is simulated as a total grip calculation playing upon cornering force and slip angle with camber thrust.

The 2 points of one end create lets call it axle grip, the total of the 2 ends axle grip creates the total grip, but each end is dynamically impacted by slip angle and if one end exceeds the limit a slip occurs and the end it occurs on will dictate the effects or reactions of the car. Camber thrust aids the tire following a curved trajectory while cornering.

The forces playing upon the weight can be seen as a ball in the center of a circle going in the opposite direction of the force giving our equal and opposite reaction relayed through the vehicle upon 4 points.

Chassis flex then dictates the ability for the settings to hold true or flex out

You have to look at it in different ways but at the same time (Like what?!?!?!?)

Let me explain.

A Tuners needs the perspective of a Mechanic, an Engineer and a Driver.

The perspective of just a mechanic wont cut it because you need an understanding from and engineering point beyond wrench turning and mechanical application, while an engineer needs an understanding of the wrench turning and mechanics at play at an application level, but a drivers perspective is needed to relay this into handling feel going around a track.

Looking at GT6 for an advanced understanding of GT6 Dynamics we then also need the ability to see this all through mathematics and then a computer guy to help see the mathematics in the code.

Thankfully PD has simplified it so all that one needs to know is proper tuning techniques and apply it to the sliders in the game relatively.

Im obsessive compulsive & Over analyzing the GT physics has been something that satisfies an obsession for me so I dont do anything compulsive.

Yes sure.

But where are the Axle Grip or Total Grip works? Between the Tyres and the Ground? But we doesn´t have a real ground like in Real Life. The Tyres don`t roll over the Ground and the Ground doesn´t rolls under the Tyres, it´s only look like that. Really i´m 100% agreed with what you figured out and says about the Game. But don´t forget it is a Game, it works like a Game. It can only works like a Game, because it´s not real. In my Eyes is that Point the real future of Racing Games, that you have ingame a Solid Track and move the car on this.

And i proof it to you. I´ve seen this while modding Cars in GT5. Try to mod a Nissan 370Z lower, like the Racing Susspension for the 370Z. This Susspension is nearly the maximum lowering Ingame level. If you try to lowering the 370Z more, you will see you push the Tyres into the ground, not into the Body. Same effect on the R32 Premium Skyline with a wider Tiretrack by using a wider Chassis. it must have to do with the wheel arch from the Fender/Body. On both Cars you can See it is wider like on other Cars. When this impact with the Wheel while lowering, it pushed the Tyre into the Ground. And when you use a Chassis, that has to much more Wheelbase like the stock one, the Susspension doesn´t works correct, because the Front/Rear Axle are not on this Point where the Gamephysics works.

We don't need a ground or anything, we don't even need a car.

It can be seen mathematically as a ball of light in a circle trailing around a lake bed of water hovering over it with 4 points underneath that are circles that get bigger and smaller as the light in the body circle moves closer and away from them and inside its circle added to patch dynamics in the suspension settings. The 4 tire circles have arrows pointing in the direction of the trajectory while the body circle with the lights trajectory is a combination of all 4 tires trajectory dynamically.

Everything is visual representations of mathematics

The ground is represented visually by the ride height. Its as simple as X distance from the ride height point of measure to the center point of the rim and center point of the rim is Y distance to the track. There are crossovers in the visual representation when the values become too extreme for the conditions of the equations. For example landing from a big jump. Where the wheels will sink through the track for a sec, this shows the math a little bit lagging behind under the extreme situation and circumstance. Most probably in these circumstances a failure would occur and GT doesn't simulate failures, this is just GT at this point, limited by the PS3 but also a bit by KAZ wanting to see only rolling perfection and personally not too interested in damage. GT7 looks promising that more dynamics in that respect will be delivered as the market demands it despite personal feelings, and there is no more hardware limitations on the PS4.

Another example is adding way bigger rims to cars that are not visually up to it ( often this is limited by suspension settings) the heinght from the bod to the wheel center is set, but if the wheel size exceeds the limits the amount in excess will appears sunk through the track. OR If you visually remove the wheels completely the car will hover over the track at the same height.

Remember there are no physical anythings, just visual representations of the angles and mathematics at play.

Aside from the Zoom Zoom LM55 the 1.15 Hotfix also contained a fix for the 2X for DS3 users.

Interesting the 2X is the first car I know of in GT6 to use reduced steering rotation. The 2X doesn't have a 900deg rotation, more like 450deg. I would of liked the KARTS & 97T, RBX1 etc cars to also of had this but maybe an update or GT7. (The option in the G27 is not solution as it has its own issues, but some do use it with success) when the car was released DS3 users complained about how difficult the car was to drive, and the recent Hotfix addressed this issues and "fixed" it.

Lets take a second to realize whats been done. Simply put the 2X was too hard to drive with the DS3 so PD added in some steering assist to the car for DS3 users. This is not unlike what they do for steering with the DS3 in general. In order to make the game appealing to those who dont have steering wheels they use a lot of cleaver steering assist in the DS3 dynamics. This is why while testing CAN be done with a DS3 the results are not as definitive as the results from test done with a wheel that has no steering assist.

WHat I suggest is any interesting results in testing you discover with a DS3, bring that data to somebody with a wheel so that they can go over the testing with the wheel to confirm results. IMO DS3 & any assist cloud or blur results and when all assist are removed and testing done with a wheel, the results are clear and definitive.

The car drove like crap until I added camber to the front and a little more in the rear with some toe.

I ran
Camber -3.5/-2.0 &
-0.30/0.60 Toe settings
Everything Else Stock



0:39.091

What a terrible drive in stock, 0.0/0.0 and 0.5/1,7 the car was just pathetic to drive, unpleasant and just sad, The car is GT4 legacy and not a good test bed for GT6 I would suggest the Alpine A110 1600S '72 if you want to test an old Rear Engine Rear Wheel Drive. Its Not Legacy from GT4 a better car to test. The Ruf is a car that needs a full tune up to run right, and running right will be different for each driver as he car is not only a handful but very quirky & snappy. With a tune she handles fine, but oh so driver specific.

Personally I think GT6 exclusive cars drive best in GT6 and Legacy cars are a crap shoot. GT5 more likely to be alright, while GT4 is a hit and miss situation. The RuF CTR IMO is a miss. Issues with GT6 not dealing with weight balance front to rear very well with lateral grip. Cars closer to 50/50 in game and IRL have the least of this issue and make for a better test subject IMO. I would also suggest going with FR because its probably the most common and most understood platform.

Nissan GT3 Nismo is the best car for a Test Subject in the game IMO. I believe much of the physics are designed around the car specifically and its also sporting a PD tune on it, none better than it IMO for testing.

Hey I'm sorry, see your Post today for the first time. Yes you're right with your question. I'm from Germany.

Testing RUF Yellobird was not my idea.