Post: GT6 Game Physics Testing
Options
04-30-2014, 09:03 PM
#1
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
GT6 Physics Testing & Analysis
These are Post of Interest
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
Lap Battles
You must login or register to view this content.
Here are some videos (I can only add 2 so Ill link post where videos are posted when I can)
These are Post of Interest
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
You must login or register to view this content.
Lap Battles
You must login or register to view this content.
Here are some videos (I can only add 2 so Ill link post where videos are posted when I can)
The following 9 users say thank you to SiNiST3R for this useful post:
01-08-2015, 09:17 PM
#362
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
SiNiST3RS Theories Proven to be facts Through SpecDB Data to date
These are some of the theories I had before I had SpecDB data to go through. These are things I figured out through testing the game. It shows you do not need to actually see whats hidden to figure out whats going on if your good and testing and figuring things out. I've actually not had a theory I was convinced of come back wrong, not to brag, but the track record IMO says something.
Caster & Various amount car to car
Suspension Geometry Camber Gain (even the amount)
Suspension calculated leverage factor (since GT5 I figured it was simplified to a leverage factor)
Spring Rates auto balanced keeping slider equally Full & balanced to weight split and leverage factor
Spring Rates offset & range front to rear balanced in slider level
Dampers Balanced with Spring Rates
Hidden Final Drive Gears (Focus ST and more)
Tire Slip Angle (a tire flex simulation)
Even Camber Grip Multiplyers
I guess I have a knack for it, almost like I can't miss
These are some of the theories I had before I had SpecDB data to go through. These are things I figured out through testing the game. It shows you do not need to actually see whats hidden to figure out whats going on if your good and testing and figuring things out. I've actually not had a theory I was convinced of come back wrong, not to brag, but the track record IMO says something.
Caster & Various amount car to car
Suspension Geometry Camber Gain (even the amount)
Suspension calculated leverage factor (since GT5 I figured it was simplified to a leverage factor)
Spring Rates auto balanced keeping slider equally Full & balanced to weight split and leverage factor
Spring Rates offset & range front to rear balanced in slider level
Dampers Balanced with Spring Rates
Hidden Final Drive Gears (Focus ST and more)
Tire Slip Angle (a tire flex simulation)
Even Camber Grip Multiplyers
I guess I have a knack for it, almost like I can't miss
01-09-2015, 09:19 PM
#365
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
More comments on the Camber Chatter, No Disrespect, Id just like to reflect my opinion on a very interesting post. So Voodoovaj I'm not putting you down, you IMO are beginning to see a lot of the truths in the subject that at GTP takes something to speak up on, Especially with Mr JohnnyPenis singing the praise of every post that promotes zero camber, and criticizes and over analyzes every post that says they find a benefit, demanding everybody who thinks its beneficial to post a tune to prove it, and when some do, he just ignores it, so PLEASE take no offense.
Interesting post.
This Part is 100% True IMO
That is how camber is supposed to wok, in real life and in the game, and this IMO is exactly how it works in GT6
The rest seems a little bit all over the place, but looks like the tunnel has light.
It tells me that you believe it only works as its "supposed" to according to the game description up to 1.0 increasing grip on a whole then it becomes a trade of long vs lat.
This I do not understand, because working as its supposed to is your above 1.0 assessment where it becomes a trade of long vs lat grip. They may not be very clear in the in game description and the grip increase is not supposed to be exactly linear increased grip on a whole as camber increases, its supposed to be an increased trade of Long vs Lat, and the balance of lateral grip is increased as camber is increased at the cost of longitudinal grip. It may not exactly say the lateral grip comes at the cost of longitudinal grip in the game description but this is common knowledge that's how its supposed to work in the real world SO working as it should in the game is working as it should in the real world & so the above 1.0 assessment is "working correctly" even if not entirely explained in the in game description, but it does say braking distances increase, so while it is vague its correct. Adding grip progressively on a whole without reducing longitudinal grip is not as the in game description describes because the description does say increased braking distances, how can it increase braking distances if it increases grip on a whole? It cant, this reflects the loss of longitudinal grip as the lateral grip is increased.
Below 1.0 the trade is very very minimal and so you really don't start to feel any trade of grip until you pass 1.0
After that's looked at then some secondary tuning is require on a zero camber tuned car.
Now that there is rear camber on the car it will allow us to put more power down but with the diff really opened up for zero camber, full throttle doesn't take advantage of our new found cornering grip as its been dallied in for low cornering grip. So we need to re-tune the differential to take advantage of our new grip to put more power down as we throttle out to get a higher exit speed, the higher exit speed is critical to getting gains. Unless the diff is tuned to take advantage of the camber, it wont.
Once you have re tuned the the differential to take advantage of camber, take into consideration that the spring rates and roll bars also tune the camber sweet spot. Softer set ups allow more body roll, and that is called "roll camber" tighter set up allow less, any changes to the spring rates and roll bars will change that sweet spot, if you want to keep your camber as you tuned it, nicely in your sweet spot, you need to account for the adjustments in the camber to keep it the same.
If there was no roll camber we wouldn't use camber on a car as we do. SO how much body roll there is (roll camber) directly reflects how much static camber angle is required to compliment the suspension camber gain when dealing with roll camber.
Originally posted by Voodoovaj
And there is the issue with this debate. The limits of effective camber vs. the limits of grip. I, at no point said that camber is completely ineffective above 1.0. I said, you will not find grip above 1.0 as it is defined by the game, so lateral and longitudinal grip. If someone is looking for more grip as the game uses the term, then it will most likely be between 0 and 1.0. Something very heavy might find it above the 1.0 mark, but likely not far.
Above 1.0 you could find increase lateral grip, but at the cost of longitudinal grip. Above 1.0, you might find more top speed. Above 1.0, you might find a car that is more suited to your particular style. Above 1.0, you might find more turn in. Actually, you might even find more grip above 1.0 depending on the track, corner angle, weight of the car, and which end you chose to venture above that limit.
Now, the limit of effective camber, well...what would you term effective? Could a particular car set faster lap times with more consistency employing a high camber angle (above 1.0)? Absolutely. In fact, adding grip may hinder a lap time, so in that case would you say camber is effective? I would. It obviously has an effect, so by definition, it would be effective.
Above 1.0 you could find increase lateral grip, but at the cost of longitudinal grip. Above 1.0, you might find more top speed. Above 1.0, you might find a car that is more suited to your particular style. Above 1.0, you might find more turn in. Actually, you might even find more grip above 1.0 depending on the track, corner angle, weight of the car, and which end you chose to venture above that limit.
Now, the limit of effective camber, well...what would you term effective? Could a particular car set faster lap times with more consistency employing a high camber angle (above 1.0)? Absolutely. In fact, adding grip may hinder a lap time, so in that case would you say camber is effective? I would. It obviously has an effect, so by definition, it would be effective.
Interesting post.
This Part is 100% True IMO
Originally posted by Voodoovaj
you could find increase lateral grip, but at the cost of longitudinal grip.
That is how camber is supposed to wok, in real life and in the game, and this IMO is exactly how it works in GT6
The rest seems a little bit all over the place, but looks like the tunnel has light.
Originally posted by another user
And there is the issue with this debate. The limits of effective camber vs. the limits of grip. I, at no point said that camber is completely ineffective above 1.0. I said, you will not find grip above 1.0 as it is defined by the game, so lateral and longitudinal grip. If someone is looking for more grip as the game uses the term, then it will most likely be between 0 and 1.0. Something very heavy might find it above the 1.0 mark, but likely not far.
It tells me that you believe it only works as its "supposed" to according to the game description up to 1.0 increasing grip on a whole then it becomes a trade of long vs lat.
This I do not understand, because working as its supposed to is your above 1.0 assessment where it becomes a trade of long vs lat grip. They may not be very clear in the in game description and the grip increase is not supposed to be exactly linear increased grip on a whole as camber increases, its supposed to be an increased trade of Long vs Lat, and the balance of lateral grip is increased as camber is increased at the cost of longitudinal grip. It may not exactly say the lateral grip comes at the cost of longitudinal grip in the game description but this is common knowledge that's how its supposed to work in the real world SO working as it should in the game is working as it should in the real world & so the above 1.0 assessment is "working correctly" even if not entirely explained in the in game description, but it does say braking distances increase, so while it is vague its correct. Adding grip progressively on a whole without reducing longitudinal grip is not as the in game description describes because the description does say increased braking distances, how can it increase braking distances if it increases grip on a whole? It cant, this reflects the loss of longitudinal grip as the lateral grip is increased.
Below 1.0 the trade is very very minimal and so you really don't start to feel any trade of grip until you pass 1.0
After that's looked at then some secondary tuning is require on a zero camber tuned car.
Now that there is rear camber on the car it will allow us to put more power down but with the diff really opened up for zero camber, full throttle doesn't take advantage of our new found cornering grip as its been dallied in for low cornering grip. So we need to re-tune the differential to take advantage of our new grip to put more power down as we throttle out to get a higher exit speed, the higher exit speed is critical to getting gains. Unless the diff is tuned to take advantage of the camber, it wont.
Once you have re tuned the the differential to take advantage of camber, take into consideration that the spring rates and roll bars also tune the camber sweet spot. Softer set ups allow more body roll, and that is called "roll camber" tighter set up allow less, any changes to the spring rates and roll bars will change that sweet spot, if you want to keep your camber as you tuned it, nicely in your sweet spot, you need to account for the adjustments in the camber to keep it the same.
If there was no roll camber we wouldn't use camber on a car as we do. SO how much body roll there is (roll camber) directly reflects how much static camber angle is required to compliment the suspension camber gain when dealing with roll camber.
01-09-2015, 10:35 PM
#366
q-k
Can’t trickshot me!
Sorry for going OT, but I have a question..
Does anybody else face a kitten (http 404) when trying to browse the GT6 forum here for like two days?
I'm using this link: You must login or register to view this content.
which will then be rewritten to: You must login or register to view this content.
My only chance to enter the GT6 forum is by opening You must login or register to view this content. and following the last thread that shows up in the global forum overview. I can still view other threads by clicking on previous/next thread links at the bottom, but tbh - that's not how modern browsing is intended to work like..
Already deleted cookies and stuff, but I'm facing the exact same problem on two different PC's - attached to two different internet connections. So the only combination I can see is me, in front of both rigs. Probably having installed some browser addons that interfere..
Although, I can open other subforums fine on NGU, GT5 works like a charm.. Just GT6 doesn't work for me..
Does anybody else face a kitten (http 404) when trying to browse the GT6 forum here for like two days?
I'm using this link: You must login or register to view this content.
which will then be rewritten to: You must login or register to view this content.
My only chance to enter the GT6 forum is by opening You must login or register to view this content. and following the last thread that shows up in the global forum overview. I can still view other threads by clicking on previous/next thread links at the bottom, but tbh - that's not how modern browsing is intended to work like..
Already deleted cookies and stuff, but I'm facing the exact same problem on two different PC's - attached to two different internet connections. So the only combination I can see is me, in front of both rigs. Probably having installed some browser addons that interfere..
Although, I can open other subforums fine on NGU, GT5 works like a charm.. Just GT6 doesn't work for me..
01-10-2015, 12:52 PM
#369
hristo1026
Grunt
Originally posted by k
Sorry for going OT, but I have a question..
Does anybody else face a kitten (http 404) when trying to browse the GT6 forum here for like two days?
I'm using this link: You must login or register to view this content.
which will then be rewritten to: You must login or register to view this content.
My only chance to enter the GT6 forum is by opening You must login or register to view this content. and following the last thread that shows up in the global forum overview. I can still view other threads by clicking on previous/next thread links at the bottom, but tbh - that's not how modern browsing is intended to work like..
Already deleted cookies and stuff, but I'm facing the exact same problem on two different PC's - attached to two different internet connections. So the only combination I can see is me, in front of both rigs. Probably having installed some browser addons that interfere..
Although, I can open other subforums fine on NGU, GT5 works like a charm.. Just GT6 doesn't work for me..
Does anybody else face a kitten (http 404) when trying to browse the GT6 forum here for like two days?
I'm using this link: You must login or register to view this content.
which will then be rewritten to: You must login or register to view this content.
My only chance to enter the GT6 forum is by opening You must login or register to view this content. and following the last thread that shows up in the global forum overview. I can still view other threads by clicking on previous/next thread links at the bottom, but tbh - that's not how modern browsing is intended to work like..
Already deleted cookies and stuff, but I'm facing the exact same problem on two different PC's - attached to two different internet connections. So the only combination I can see is me, in front of both rigs. Probably having installed some browser addons that interfere..
Although, I can open other subforums fine on NGU, GT5 works like a charm.. Just GT6 doesn't work for me..
I have the same problem.
When you come to NGU go to some other forum Battlefield 4 for example.
Then enter in some thread and from there go to GT6 forum(works every time)
01-10-2015, 05:46 PM
#370
SiNiST3R
Samurai Poster
CargoRat's Blind Camber Test was Probably the best post in the entire camber chitter chatter thread.... Thanks Cargo for pointing this out. I've talked about confirmation bias and blind testing, and this guy up and does it. I'm not saying he did it because of anything I said, but its something Ive been pointing at for a while and I criticize GTP for running biased test FINALLY A Blind test was done.
There was even a member at GTP who mentioned confirmation bias while displaying confirmation bias (Pretty sure he read my post on Confirmation Bias) look at his post
He is interestingly convinced camber is broken with no blind test being done, but requires a blind test to prove it works? See the hypocrisy? That is displayed Confirmation Bias while being aware of confirmation bias DANGEROUS...
His test to prove to himself camber is broken, is NOT blind, and his requirements for proof camber works since people are posting positive results using camber is for them to do a blind test to prove it.. Nice double standard there. It seems he is aware of confirmation bias but he seems unaware he is CLEARLY displaying confirmation bias.
Big words only make you look smart if its clear you understand them. This guy seems to be using the big words but doesnt FULLY understand what hes talking about or he might realize his hypocrisy.
Okay, HERE is the Blind test showing everything you said if you saw you would be convinced camber works....
Lets see if Mr StirlingMoose is a man of his word..... I wonder, but also I doubt it...
@ Cargo I would only suggest that now that you have found your sweet spot for that car. Consider the possibility of making this your BASE set up, and Restart Tuning from scratch BUT using your Base set up as your starting point, going through the springs, roll bars etc. As you make changes to the set up, the sweet spot will change, but you can predict the direction of the change and compensate, but go slowly, small adjustment here, compensate, small adjustment there, compensate etc. The benefit of this is you will progressively get faster as you dial it all in together.
The differential has to be tuned also to get the most out of rear camber. Many use low accel settings with zero Camber very low, because with zero camber there is bad outside rear grip and throttle causes the outside wheel to spin very easy sending the car into a death spin, tuner lower the accel until they can throttle out of the corner without spinning. With Camber getting more grip on the outside rear tire, we can put more power to it without it breaking loose into a death spin SO the Diff needs to be returned the same way, high as it can be without breaking out too easy on exit. The higher the accel number the more power will get put to the road, the lower the number creates sorta a buffer zone where power is lost on the buffer.
Some have been complaining that they see camber provide higher minimum speeds trough the corner but zero camber having better exit speed, that s because they are using a zero camber diff on a camber tune.
There was even a member at GTP who mentioned confirmation bias while displaying confirmation bias (Pretty sure he read my post on Confirmation Bias) look at his post
Originally posted by StirlingMoose
I'm pretty agnostic about this subject. I've done a few basic tests, just running a car stock then removing the camber then putting it back, and sometimes it seems much better with 0 camber, but then on other occasions I've been able to match my best times with the stock settings. The main impression I've had is that 0 camber gives better traction on exits. But there are some pretty entrenched views here and, however neutral and fair people think they're being, confirmation bias is real and very powerful so if your tests are not blinded I'm afraid they're worth nothing. If anyone can run tests using different set-ups which are chosen randomly by someone else and consistently do better lap times with camber applied I'll be convinced.
He is interestingly convinced camber is broken with no blind test being done, but requires a blind test to prove it works? See the hypocrisy? That is displayed Confirmation Bias while being aware of confirmation bias DANGEROUS...
His test to prove to himself camber is broken, is NOT blind, and his requirements for proof camber works since people are posting positive results using camber is for them to do a blind test to prove it.. Nice double standard there. It seems he is aware of confirmation bias but he seems unaware he is CLEARLY displaying confirmation bias.
Big words only make you look smart if its clear you understand them. This guy seems to be using the big words but doesnt FULLY understand what hes talking about or he might realize his hypocrisy.
Okay, HERE is the Blind test showing everything you said if you saw you would be convinced camber works....
Originally posted by CargoRatt
Alright guys, as painful as it was for me to do this due to the fact that I am fresh out of the hospital and all stitched up :sick:, I just sat through 5 hours of testing to bring some numbers to the table. First, let me say that when PD announced some updates ago that they fixed the camber issue, I was one of the few people who believed that it was indeed fixed...to an extent. I still believe that. I did loads of testing back then to come to my conclusion, I did not just take PD's word that it was fixed. With this most recent update in regards to camber further being tweaked, I have not felt any difference compared to the update where they fixed it, everything feels and works the same as it did after that update, in my opinion. I would further like to say that I am not claiming my findings here to be fact, only how I see things from my point of view after all the testing I have done in the game in regards to this issue. After the "camber" update, if you will, I tested 3 cars of each drivetrain of various power levels. I cannot begin to tell you how thorough I was in my testing after that update. I feel that I left no stone unturned in coming to my conclusion. I say this because this time around, I have only had time to do this one in depth test with this one car so far, but that's enough for me to come to the same conclusion I came to back at the original "camber" update. Like I said earlier, I believe that camber is indeed fixed for the most part. I more less just did this test so I would have some numbers to bring to the table. Ok, about the test.
I wanted to take out as many variables as I could, so this is how I went about it. I had my daughter help me with this test. Her job was to punch in the camber numbers into the suspension setting without me knowing which ones I was driving in each session. This was done in order to take out the element of me knowing which settings I was driving and when, just trying to take out as much of the human "mind over matter" element that I could. She filled in the chart that I had made as we went. I used a low powered car at a short track to minimized as much of the drivers input as I could: minimal throttle/brake/steering input and the like. I also used automatic transmission to take out any shifting variables. With this, I was able to pretty much replicate each lap exactly in regards to inputs and driving line, I was very constant with my inputs in this test. Here are the rest of the parameters. Each session was 6 laps.
Car: Honda S500 '63
Tires: Stock (CM)
Parts added: Suspension (stock except for camber settings) Trans (Stock)
No oil change
Track: Tsukuba
Time: 15:30
Temp. 73 degrees F
Grip Reduction: Real
Test Results
0.0/0.0 1'24.435 BASE TIME
4.0/0.0 1'24.822
3.0/0.0 1'24.783
2.0/0.0 1'24.415
1.0/0.0 1'24.214 Fastest time with front camber
0.0/4.0 1'24.633
0.0/3.0 1'24.364
0.0/2.0 1'24.132 Fastest time with rear camber
0.0/1.0 1'24.229
1.0/1.0 1'24.313
2.0/2.0 1'24.233
3.0/3.0 1'24.516
4.0/4.0 1'24.997
So, now knowing where my possible sweet spot for front and rear camber was, I further tweaked the camber values and ended up with 0.6/2.2 with a time of 1'24.129. To further validate this and while I was still in the groove, I went and re-ran 0.0/0.0 camber again ending up with a time of 1'24.407. So, as you can see, my numbers here back up my beliefs, camber works and is not broken. Knowing these numbers, I can now apply them, with a few adjustments, into a stable, fast, and competitive tune.
In closing, I would just like to once again say that I am in no way claiming my findings to be fact, but only what I believe to be true through my own testing. Now, its been a long day, I'm off to rest now. Happy Holidays everyone.
I wanted to take out as many variables as I could, so this is how I went about it. I had my daughter help me with this test. Her job was to punch in the camber numbers into the suspension setting without me knowing which ones I was driving in each session. This was done in order to take out the element of me knowing which settings I was driving and when, just trying to take out as much of the human "mind over matter" element that I could. She filled in the chart that I had made as we went. I used a low powered car at a short track to minimized as much of the drivers input as I could: minimal throttle/brake/steering input and the like. I also used automatic transmission to take out any shifting variables. With this, I was able to pretty much replicate each lap exactly in regards to inputs and driving line, I was very constant with my inputs in this test. Here are the rest of the parameters. Each session was 6 laps.
Car: Honda S500 '63
Tires: Stock (CM)
Parts added: Suspension (stock except for camber settings) Trans (Stock)
No oil change
Track: Tsukuba
Time: 15:30
Temp. 73 degrees F
Grip Reduction: Real
Test Results
0.0/0.0 1'24.435 BASE TIME
4.0/0.0 1'24.822
3.0/0.0 1'24.783
2.0/0.0 1'24.415
1.0/0.0 1'24.214 Fastest time with front camber
0.0/4.0 1'24.633
0.0/3.0 1'24.364
0.0/2.0 1'24.132 Fastest time with rear camber
0.0/1.0 1'24.229
1.0/1.0 1'24.313
2.0/2.0 1'24.233
3.0/3.0 1'24.516
4.0/4.0 1'24.997
So, now knowing where my possible sweet spot for front and rear camber was, I further tweaked the camber values and ended up with 0.6/2.2 with a time of 1'24.129. To further validate this and while I was still in the groove, I went and re-ran 0.0/0.0 camber again ending up with a time of 1'24.407. So, as you can see, my numbers here back up my beliefs, camber works and is not broken. Knowing these numbers, I can now apply them, with a few adjustments, into a stable, fast, and competitive tune.
In closing, I would just like to once again say that I am in no way claiming my findings to be fact, but only what I believe to be true through my own testing. Now, its been a long day, I'm off to rest now. Happy Holidays everyone.
Lets see if Mr StirlingMoose is a man of his word..... I wonder, but also I doubt it...
@ Cargo I would only suggest that now that you have found your sweet spot for that car. Consider the possibility of making this your BASE set up, and Restart Tuning from scratch BUT using your Base set up as your starting point, going through the springs, roll bars etc. As you make changes to the set up, the sweet spot will change, but you can predict the direction of the change and compensate, but go slowly, small adjustment here, compensate, small adjustment there, compensate etc. The benefit of this is you will progressively get faster as you dial it all in together.
The differential has to be tuned also to get the most out of rear camber. Many use low accel settings with zero Camber very low, because with zero camber there is bad outside rear grip and throttle causes the outside wheel to spin very easy sending the car into a death spin, tuner lower the accel until they can throttle out of the corner without spinning. With Camber getting more grip on the outside rear tire, we can put more power to it without it breaking loose into a death spin SO the Diff needs to be returned the same way, high as it can be without breaking out too easy on exit. The higher the accel number the more power will get put to the road, the lower the number creates sorta a buffer zone where power is lost on the buffer.
Some have been complaining that they see camber provide higher minimum speeds trough the corner but zero camber having better exit speed, that s because they are using a zero camber diff on a camber tune.
Copyright © 2026, NextGenUpdate.
All Rights Reserved.
