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Right On Bro.

The guys here know I am actually a Helpful guy and keep all my physics mumbo jumbo in this thread anyways. I might get a lil deep micro analyzing stuff but its so I don't talk out of my ass hole lol plus I got guys like you supporting me with a supply of data most would only dream of that takes a lot of the guess work out of it cheers Bro. If a handful of GTP Gurus would STFU and allow others to speak maybe there would be real progression at GTP, less tail chasing. No progression when opposing ideas are treated as blasphemy.

Bouncing back in forth from Real to GT6 talking about only caring about what works in GT6, I only care about what real techniques work in GT6, if a glitch method works I wont use it, its a cope out, a short cut, a cheeser trick, its Glitch Tuning, I will have no part of that bullshit.

I may have been banned from GTP a few times, but those that have been there watching things go down are more and more seeing the truth behind whats actually happening. People are learning the truth about some of the "respected" members and learning how these "respected" guys are if you present an apposing idea or in some way show they were wrong in any way. People have seen me post things that these guys will like and then like true hypocrites as soon as they see who I be all of a sudden everything I say is wrong, oh and its all my fault, I make people feel stupid, lol

Moderation favoratizm is getting exposed

Honestly why do you think PD skipped the GTP Ask Kaz Section..... Could it be because there is a lot of Kaz & PD Bashing going on that is a protected culture at GTP while the "Respected" GTP members are protected from all criticism. You cant even question their PD & Kaz Bashing because PD & Kaz Bashing is GTP Protected. PD Probably sees GTP as a whole for what it truly is and despite thousands of awesome members, there is a SERIOUS Management issue that is not looking like ANYTHING is being done to fix & PD probably Recognized the managements and Guys like Motor City Hammi & JohnnyPennso are pollution they want no association with at all.. Sony Provides PD a GT6 Forum section, thats all they need and PD most likely looked at GTP when they were choosing where to do their Q&A, GTP was not the chosen venue...... They most likely had a reason

Tip of the Hat to Highlander at GTP for standing up to the masses with GTP_CargoRatt. Its not a matter of right or wrong, but freedom of opinions and ideas.

Motor City Hammi closed his Garage & Deleted his Tuning Guide because of "Drama" Its MCH fault for throwing a FiTT and maybe he didn't get as much mod protection as he though he would have. Whatever happened it hit MCH hard lol and hes throwing a FiTT closing everything up and I believe Highlander hit the nail on the head with his post



If your at GTP give them support & like the post

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Its about being able to have an apposing opinion without the Cambers Broken crew chastising them or making them out to feel stupid for thinking differently or having a different opinion to the "GTP Consensus" if they want to thinkcambers broken so be it, just leave those who think otherwise alone. If proving the side requires the other side unbiased test in a biased debate its never going to go anywhere for either side.

I've been pointing at Motor City Full of Shit's "Guide" as text book "what not to do" for a while lol its a Glitch Tuning Handbook

Maybe MCH is realizing his bullshit isn't going to sell very well anymore as "The Great Camber Experiment" debunks his most grip at 0/0 Bullshit.

Maybe he realized how much of an Asshole he is

I doubt it, hes a Princess looking for attention lol he wants a bunch of sob stories because he closed up shop to stroke his ego some as its been dented.

EDIT: Princess MCH is back & re-posted his Guide. MCH is already back admitting to insulting people in PM's (not surprised the spineless asshole) he re-posted his "What not to do" Guide & is crying about his insulting PM instigating a real life threat where he called the cops and filed a Police report.

Holly Shit what a Pussy. This guy is some type of E-Thug hiding behind a keyboard and calling the Cops when he pushes somebody too far. Da fuck they probably just said they want to punch him in the face, is he surprised? If he pulled his shit track side he would be calling the cops with a black eye if hes lucky not crying scared about getting one like a little Bitch. Man the Fuck up if you cant handle it when somebody threatens you don't push people to the point they want to smash your face in. Be glad this shit went down online, Id love to see you talk your shit to my face, its going to take the Cops some time to get there and in the mean time "somebody gonna get hurt real bad" as if I give a fuck if you call the cops, court takes a long time and in that time somebody can get hurt real bad.

I've seen shit get a lot crazier over a whole lot less, MCH Man The Fuck up stop being such a Pussy or Shut the Fuck Up if you cant handle a lil Heat.. Be glad you didn't get banned and hopefully learn from this, sounds like you've not had your proper ass kicking in life yet, its never too late.

Ridox2JZGTE is at GTP trying to explain pace in a game vs pace in real life to Stotty

I have to agree with Ridox2JZGTE, I will add that when comparing Real Life to GT6 we have to also make sure that no assist that are not in real life are on the car, like ABS stability assist No Driving line AND NO GEAR SHIFT INDICATOR that doubles as a BRAKE POINT INDICATOR. Take all that shit off and run limited laps with crashing = game over and it will get a little closer to real life in GT6.

Removing all driving assist in the game that the real life driver doesn't have just seem obvious to me. People think they are so much faster in the game vs some guy who ran a lap in real life, but they overlook they have assist on in the game (DS3 users have steering assist even when all assist are shut off) like ABS and gear/brake point indicator on, and then they run laps for days to post hot lap times often crashing a few times and just resetting the lap when in real life the guy had a few laps practice before setting his one or 2 hot laps and if he crashed its game over.

Stotty admits to not driving sans ABS in "a long time" I would stake my left Nut hes got the gear shift indicator on if not the driving line too if he admits it or not.

Stop playing Video Game Style & you can get a much more Real experience out of GT6, its all up to the user.


There is POLLUTION when a Guy see a Group camber test being done, and instead of contributing to that test they do their own test and submit results with some cute comment at the end like "look at the results and decide for yourself" Let me explain something. Those ARE NOT RESULTS, there is no context, nothing to hold it relative to and so its USELESS INFORMATION. There is a new Guru every few days sometimes every few hours who post up their own testing.... The ONLY way ANY of that BULLSHIT can become relevant is if you submit ALL the testing data/parameters and then OTHERS repeat the test and submit the results and so we have test data we can look at, only after many repeat the test will we have any RESULTS to speak of for interpretion. THE PROBLEM IS with a new "look at my test" post every few days it would never end, everybody would have to do a new test with the newly submitted parameters every time a "look at MY test" post is made.. There is ALREADY a camber test being done, if your not going to run THAT test and submit your data you should keep your useless "Test" to yourself.

Its like giving a survey to one person, that's just retarded. What good is a survey only only person completed? What would you think of a article about a camber survey with only 1 participant? Biased Bullshit, not worth taking into consideration at all. Never mind the participant also wrote the survey ROFLMFAO.

To think those post are completed test with result is fucking CRAZY and basically as I pegged it earlier "Confirmation Bias" that goes against the rules of scientific testing. This is why the community test going on actually has usable data, sure the suspension is not tuned for camber and sure the camber being tested is always = never offset and that in itself is wrong. The data is usable because we have many people running the same test, not just one, we have data to compare for interpretation.

Every singly car I tune and everybody else too for that matter gets a little faster as I tune it so posting those "look at my test" post are a smoke screen, a cloud to cover the truth in BULLSHIT.



I will add does anybody else notice many of those who thing camber works also promote driving without ABS-1 running Zero ABS and most of those who think camber is broken drive ABS-1..

Simply put ABS-1 generates corner entry stability that ABS-0 drivers need to tune in with wheel angles Oh My Fucking God. this is why ABS if you use it or not NEEDS to be removed from testing physics as it obscures results. Even a DS3 obscures results as it has steering assist. Nobody is saying you cant use a DS3 or ABS, they just have no business in physics testing as any results from them are NOT as definitive as results testing the physics without assist...


This Entire Post is a REALITY many at GTP do not want t face, it is the ugly truth nobody wants to admit to. I would post it if it wouldn't just get deleted for coming from me, I would like to see it there none the less as I'm sure the excuses would fly.

You can't explain anything to those elitist, holier-than-tho, know it alls over there at GTP. People like Stotty, penso, Hami, and others have their heads shoved so far up each others asses that they'll never see the light of day, its absolutely pathetic. Stotty has a hard-on for some WhoosierGirl chick over there so he's also trying to impress her with all of his fake ass wisdom. The guy is a real joke. Then you got people like Penso running around there like some spoiled ass brat playing hall monitor trying to impress his opinion upon everyone. That guy is also a real joke. There are a few guys though that are starting to come around with their opinion that camber does indeed work in the game, its just too bad they'll get flamed because they don't have the same opinion as the know-it-alls over there. I honestly believe that even if you showed them concrete proof that camber does work, they would still deny it due to their own over inflated egos. Anyways, sorry for the rant, just thought I'd add my own 2 cents and perspective, lol. Long live camber, lol.

I'm yet to find a thread there, where he didn't post anything. I might however see the chance of a single one. Where it's off-topic and not his musical taste..



And that's the reason why I'm not "leaking" anything at GTP anymore. I'm following some threads now and then, but I'm really put off due to some GT "apologists" there. It reminds me of religious blindness (religion in general - not to mention a specific one, some big religions even have their own crusades).
Complain about some facts that you don't like about GT6 (like waiting for promised features for a year now) - get called out "whining" or some similar stuff. Like I as a paying customer that has been promised something, isn't worthy to complain about delivery being overdue.. Pathetic!
In the camber thread over there, Ridox posted a lot of interesting names from the suspension physics/tyre model.. Well, the whole data the game uses is available for every car (in the specdb), but not in public. And not on GTP at all (I still don't like the fact that several mods there didn't reply to PM's in the past - which I perceive as a pure "ignoring").
And, it is not available by sending me a PM.

The whole situation is just too bad. I really liked every GT title, up to GT6. But GT6 development since release is just ridiculous in my opinion. I'm more than highly disappointed. Sure, a few nice things have been added. But far too less to keep an old time customer like me (not declaring myself a "fanboi" anymore) satisfied until now. I don't even want the Platinum Trophy for it. A thing I spent a LOT of time for back in the GT5 days (before savegame editing was possible at all).
I'm getting more fun out of GT6, ripping apart all the crypto stuff PD came up with.. than waiting for them to deliver promised features.

Enough rant from me now :argh:

RIDOX has been made privi to the names on the tire/suspension/chassis data from SpecDB as FarSideX posted them in this thread many pages back, hes not a member here so I informed him of the posted list when FarSideX posted it as he is a research nut and while I don't always agree with him, I find much of what he has to say very much on point even if not always for the same reasons lol reading his post though it looks like FarSideX gave his some stuff, at least he says he did.

@q-k I've been guilty of calling complaining bout missing features whining.

In MY opinion I don't so much care about the complaint, just the bringing it up all the time when its not related. Like One guy will say "Hey look a new VGT car" and a bunch will respond "so what course makers not here yet". Complaints are complaints and they are certainly warranted and valid 100%, bringing it up all over the place all the time when others who are aware of the missing features (as we all are) are trying to enjoy something else or just making the same complaint over and over and over almost daily in multiple threads is whining. I get it the VGT are DLC but 2 separate things. In a CM thread I could read pages upon pages of daily complaints and not get bothered one bit, but if I'm talking about the Nismo GTR only to be interrupted by no CM complaints, I get irked. Its like I cant find something enjoyable about the game without a constant reminder CM is not here yet as if the lack of feature wasn't already obvious to everybody.

I personally don't like that course maker is not here yet, its one of my complaints too, even if not so much for myself just so the product can be finished and the issue resolved.

I'm really pissed there is no PS4 G27 support

However the complaining in off topic threads has been down the last few months. I guess people are liking the VGT cars because a thread talks about them for pages now and no mention of a lack of CM. So there is a lot less complaining going on. Its not been an issue for a while but we still don't have CM and PD should just get on with that already. TokyoTurismos activity has been down lol and even hes not bringing it up all over the place anymore.


Im a little bummed you don't like GT6 that much q-k, I understand why though, and while I do like GT6, I'm a Fanboy (whatever) but I like it while recognizing its flaws and short comings, I don't think its a quantum leap from GT5, more like something that could of been done to GT5 with updates, The same can be said about many games. I think the real big change from GT5 to GT6 was physics wise, and unlike many I tossed GT5 because of a distaste for the physics & GT6 gives me what GT5 was missing, so I kinda feel like Im just playing GT5 SPec 3.0 or I play GT6 as if GT5 never existed, and I look for the next big change coming on PS4, nothing missing from GT5 in GT6 was personally important to me actually most of it I didn't care for. & who am I kidding, Ill most likely get a damn wheel for GT7/PS4, cuz I am a GT fanboy.


I'm sure you could do some crazy stuff with GT6 if you had more liking for it, but I appreciate the time you put into the GT6 section as you do stuff for us in GT6 despite your issues with the game.

Id like to address some of the Camber "Sweet spot" chatter in 2 parts. "Sweet Spot" and "Caster effect"

Sweet spot

I will explain How to change your dynamic camber angle with spring rates & roll bars to showcase that the springs and roll pars and dampers even affect how much camber you can use and this "sweet spot", they will dictate if your car is over or under camberred. So if you like your cars a certain kinda stiff its most likely your camber angles will be limited to what works with a set up as stiff as you seem to like.

The amount of dynamic camber angle of the wheels is dictated by the body roll, suspension geometry and suspension settings.

If hypothetically speaking you have found -1deg camber to be your "sweet spot" the spring rates & roll bars can change the "sweet spot" making it higher or lower.

increasing the spring rates or roll bar stiffness will lower the "sweet spot"

lowering the spring rates or roll bar stiffness will raise the "sweet spot".

How to apply this to tuning.

If you want to increase grip of an axle, you can either lower roll bar or spring stiffness of that axle, doing so raises the camber "sweet spot" and raising the static camber angle will bring the wheel back into the "sweet spot" Usually we do this on the front end.

If you want to decrease grip of an axle (Oh yeah, its not all about getting more grip) you can either raise roll bar or spring stiffness of that axle, doing so lowers the camber "sweet spot" and lowering the static camber angle will bring the wheel back into the "sweet spot" Usually we do this on the rear end.

Tuning we raise the stiffness together to address weight transfer in body pitch and roll, then we tune in the axle grip from there.

Tuning axle grip for rotation we try to balance increasing grip on the front and reducing grip on the rear to promote rotation. If the front doesn't have enough grip we have understeer, if the rear has too much grip we have understeer.

The balance is too much grip on the front and not enough on the rear results in too much oversteer.

A Balanced car has the perfect balance of front to rear grip for rotation that can be controlled by the driver, and this depends on the driver.

A Balance on the understeer side will be "Tight"

A Balance on the oversteer side will be "Lose"

The driver dictates where that balance is for them.

Some drivers like it tight, some tighter than others, while other drivers will like it loose, some looser than others. That all depends on the drivers style and what they are comfortable driving.

There is no such thing as a perfect tune that works for everybody, that is a Tuning Unicorn.

Caster Effect

Caster effect varies with the caster angle and some believe they see this in the handling by acknowledging a 0 to -1deg adjustment range that people find useful. The caster angle in GT6 ranges in some cases from 5deg to 10deg, because the caster we see at the wheel is a maximum of half the actual amount (because of steering angle travel limits) that gives a variation of 2.5deg at max travel and this is not represented in a 0 to 1deg "sweet spot" range. Not to mention often 2 cars being tuned will have the same caster and one who doesn't know the caster angles for the cars could think there is a caster angle difference if they find themselves at a different spot in the range they believe to be useful and attribute this to caster being different when its not the case.

The caster does have an impact on the dynamic camber angle but will be more felt in the stiffness of the steering as the springs, roll bars and static camber angle already deal with "roll camber" if we felt out the dynamic camber angle tuning it with static adjustments its all good, we would only adjust the caster if we want to weight up the steering or increase the centering or loosen up the centering and lighten up the steering. The dynamic camber angle IS NOT tuned with Caster, remember this isn't NASCAR with split caster. In NASCAR the caster split is used to help one way (left turn) rotation, in road course racing we turn both ways.

My Thoughts
I think there is a linear tuning style taught at GTP that basically teaches tuning each setting as an individual setting, dialing each setting individually. I've never seen tuning like that in my life. Tuning is a process of inching to a ideal set up for the driver. A change to one thing has a ripple effect across the other settings, as I show something like softening up the springs or roll bar will then take the dynamic camber angle out of the sweet spot requiring a static camber angle adjustment to realign it.

Tuning a car is like composing a symphony, everything has to be heard together, every sound. The composer doesnt compose for each instrument individually without hearing how it sounds with the other sounds. Its the same thing tuning a car (its why its called tuning and not calculating) we have to work on each setting like each instrument, and the harmony is in how all the settings work together.

sinist3r,you talk only........ made a pratical example of setup