(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); The thread that was the shining light of the last two debating sections(ugh, really?) that was God vs Fact has been trashed or something(ugh, again) so this thread is here to take the place of that one.

Some extremely basic terminology...

Theist: believes in a god(s).
Deist: believes in a god(s) that created the universe but subsequently abandoned it and/or believes that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of god(s).
Atheist: does not believe in a god(s).
Agnostic: does not claim to know if a god exists or believes that such knowledge cannot be known, depending on the definition. Typically when I personally use this label I'm referring to the former.
Gnostic: claims to know one way or the other if a god exists.

There are some more but that's the basics down. I'm an agnostic atheist. What are you and why?

Edit: Thanks to whichever mod/admin butchered the thread's title and poll. The poll now makes no sense whatsoever.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I couldn't careless if I come across as an arsehole. I normally always reply to their post as well, but some posts are just beyond even justifying that. The post I quotes earlier is the exception to the rule.

That's how it is, that's how it's going to be. Like it or lump it. Nobody is forcing you to read all the posts.

Fair enough (Your last point).

On second thoughts, maybe my posts have been a little aggressive over the last few days. When there are hours between posts it's easy to forget how often I'm calling somebody an idiot. However true it is... (Couldn't help myself )

Hey guys, can i join in?

But yeah, uh, most religious people just spout out bible verses with little much of a response, pretty robotic if you ask me.

Here's a relevant question, how many people in this world currently own a technological device over text that states religious understanding?

I'm fairly sure you can see my point.

Don't get me wrong now- i like reading books, but with things like the internet woooooo weeeee i've never been able to holler at so many women before in my life! Did religion foresee advanced pick-ups on a scale as big as this?

The internet makes information so easily available its unreal. The thing is, it's both sides that can put their opinions out there for the world to see. It's easy to justify almost anything with a few hours on internet research. Did you know aliens build the pyramids...


Facebook.... Bitches love Face

I am a Theist... with a VERY heavy scientific/mathematical background.

And I told myself a long time ago I would avoid this debate.
Simply there is too much unknown and unquantifiable properties to either prove or disprove Creation.
Which in turn leads to people becoming feeling vulnerable... which leads to becoming protective... and ultimately to some form of offence.
We cling to what we know... even if what we know is based purely on something intagible as "faith"

Faith is the operative word.
Regardless of yorur beliefs... theist, athiest, scientologist (not the cult lol)... agnostic... whatever the label.
Your beliefs are based on a faith of principals, or methods which are true to you... only you... no two people are the exact same, even in the same belief system.

I believe that everything can be boiled down to either black or white, 1's or 0's... with enough evidence.
The problem with both science and God... is neither can be accomplished.

Take for instance...

We turn on an electrical switch, and a light comes one.
We give this process labels to explain it.
A current is held broken at the contact point of the switch, when the switch is moved that current, which is produced by the negative flow of electrons, being attached to the positive flow of electrons, creating an energy.
This energy is passed along a conduit, which moves toward the light.
The light contains a small filament contained within an inert gas, when the electrical current passes through the filament, the restrictive nature of that filament creates a friction within the current, which in turn causes the filament to heat up... hence the glow.

And yes... I am not using the exact finite definitions of the process... this is merely a general description.

But labels don't make something TRUE, they only serve to define what is known at that moment.
You can take everything that science knows... and boil it down to this

Where did the stuff that we label and study originally come from.
Anti-matter, matter, the nucleus... the most basic BINARY elements of the know universe... you can always still ask... where did it come from.
Was it always there? Did it just come into existence?

In my opinion... there is always another step to bring it out of the grey... and therefore... cannot be stated as absolute fact.

1+1 does in fact =2... but what is 1???
We have given the #1 a meaning... based on OUR belief that it stands for something.

To me... there is almost nothing in life that can be explained with absolute certainty.

Especially theistic beliefs..
It is absolutely mind boggling to think that as a rational human, anybody would choose to believe that there is some omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being that might be in control of it all.

God (or whatever term a believer wishes to use) can and will never be proven...
For the simple basic ability to prove its existence is based on what we know... and what we know, is what it would have revealed to us.
So you cannot equate, something that is outside of our known existence.
If there is a God... then that God lives outside of the universe, if the universe was his creation.
Therefore if the universe is the only tangible evidence we have to work with... then how can one possibly begin to use a science/math that is completely unknown to us.

What if the #1 outside of Our universal existence has a different meaning?


I choose to believe in a God.. because I have spent the better part of my life using science to rationalize my existence.
And the more I dug into the gears and mechanics of the world... the more doors were left open.
IMO those intangibles seemed to lead in the direction of a "higher" science... a science of precision and direction.
I don't believe in accidents, or the theory of chaos... the universe even it is very chaotic appearing reality, has far too many constants, that keep the chaos in a state of working order.

Here is one very small example.
The strong force: (the force that binds nucleons (= protons and neutrons) together in nucleus, by means of meson exchange)
◦if the strong force constant were 2% stronger, there would be no stable hydrogen, no long-lived stars, no hydrogen containing compounds. This is because the single proton in hydrogen would want to stick to something else so badly that there would be no hydrogen left!
◦if the strong force constant were 5% weaker, there would be no stable stars, few (if any) elements besides hydrogen. This is because you would be able to build up the nuclei of the heavier elements, which contain more than 1 proton.
◦So, whether you adjust the strong force up or down, you lose stars than can serve as long-term sources of stable energy, or you lose chemical diversity, which is necessary to make beings that can perform the minimal requirements of living beings.

From a chemical perspective... this is the most binary block in every known chemical equation.

And as we all know... chemistry is a paramount principal to life as we know it.


All this to say... that I believe, because I have a faith to do so.
And those that choose to believe in something else, are free to do so as well.

But eventually the ignorance, and the arrogance inherant to human nature will show itself in these debates. On both sides.

Religious theist zealots who feel that those who do not share their beliefs are misguided and something to be purged.

What ticks me off the most about religion... is that people confuse religion with faith.
The faithful will find ways to make their beliefs a reality in their own lives... and live first by their beliefs... if you love... then love yourself first, and by proxy.... everything you touch will feel that effect.

The religious zealots, cling to their ignorance, by using the bible, koran etc... to MAKE people believe that what they believe in, is the truth.
You can go to church on Sunday... but what did you do for the other 6 days of the week.
You can pray to Mecca 5 times a day... but what about every other minute?
Those that make others feel their religion is the only path to god, have missed the premise.
For in any religion... you are the vessel of that belief... if you are cancerous in your walk, in your tongue, in your deepest dark thoughts... then that is what you are spreading... cancer.

It is important to remember... just like every other good and pure premise in the world... people are flawed... and hence do a pretty good job of f*cking things up.

The crazed fanatic that kills 40 people because God told him too... is not hearing God.
He is hearing his own base, flawed, sinful, selfish nature.
Don't let the crackpots and zealots fool you that this was done by God...
If there was a God... he/she/it... would sure as sh*t wouldn't need somebody to do it for them.


Then there are the scientific minds whose beliefs are so bound to the religious dogma of materialism, that they feel those who believe in a higher power are weak minded and clinging to some form of hope, in order to justify their menial existence.

And then the worst of all... will be the ones who choose not to choose... but will see this as an opportunity to inflame and affront the beliefs of every side, because it simply gives them the most based pleasure of all.

In my mind... we should ALL strive to make this already complicated... and completely f*cked up reality we call civilization, easier.
I do NOT have to look at another with differing beliefs as sh*t to be wiped off my shoes.
You can believe what you want...

My motto "Every man, woman and child is FREE to swing their arms as they please... their right to do so, ends at the tip of their neighbours nose"

Does God exist? I hope so... but even if God does not exist, I hope that I lived my life being part of the solution, and NOT part of the problem.

Regardless... my hope is that this thread chooses to educate people... not to offend or belittle those who participate.

The very basis of your entire argument can be unraveled in three words - 'burden of proof'.

Heres a basis of his "Argument"

TMTR

christian for life, there is only one GOD