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Yeh I know, not saying it was. I have to admit the YB was a nightmare to get that time lol took longer than it should have. TR Motegy such a useless track to test camber too (not your fault) looks like the testing is moving on anyways. Silverstone is flat with various corners, couldn't be a better track to test camber on, no banked or cambered corner, all flat.

Also I think the Test with the Jag should have tire wear turned on and see what tires last longest camber vs no camber etc the smoke trails and tread left behind on a camber zero run is a bit scary, here is an example of Cambers effect on tire wear


Ascari Race Resort Racw
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As an example of perfect balance & long life, what your seeing is the only reason we adjust camber in real life. Its all about what you see in those 2 pics. If the test being done at GTP keep ignoring tire temp and tire life they are going to be missing the point for a long time chasing their tails. Some have posted and brought this to life but the crowd didn't give the post enough attention and looks like its still not being taken into consideration, its a shame.

Shes quick on a Hot Lap too



I made the same mistake of trying to use the Yellowbird as a demo car to show an example of an adjustment and expected reaction. I also used a camber adjustment alone to show effect, and the camber settings were treated like its supposed to be one size fits all and they never even understood the point. It was a worthless example, hats off you did the test as suggested, my run is just to add context, while you may have been reserved to get back on the throttle as early as I was able to, I show I was able to carry the momentum through the corner and getting back on the throttle earlier in a car with even more camber. The 3.5 up front really calms the front end down, a lot less twitchy. Just such a particular car it was a bad choice (not your choice) to use it at all, but I understand where its coming from.

The Alpine is a really good car for rear engine rear wheel drive testing, however it looks like the test might go to the GT3 Nismo 123 possibly the best car for testing IMO. A PD tune on it and just a great fun car to drive in GT6 I look forward to the testing done with it.


I may not agree with you on many points, but you have not been flooding the boards as before. You've been keeping on topic in testing threads and I acknowledge your improved approach, Cheers mate.

Cheers, and Happy New Year SiNiST3R

Cheers SuperGT, you have a good one too.

Basically it comes down to a HUGE mental block. I believe many at GTP suffer from Confirmation Bias. It doesn't matter how much factual evidence is presented, they are incapable of accepting contrary facts. NOT everybody, just those that cant seem to accept the facts as they are uncovered. There is no amount of reasoning that will get through and most often the person doesn't even realize whats going on.


Confirmation bias
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Confirmation bias, also called myside bias, is the tendency to search for, remember, or interpret information in a way that confirms one's beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or recall information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position.

Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence)

Belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false)

The irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series)

Illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence.


I'm not in the Twilight Zone after all. I'm no Psychologist and even I was able to see this without ever knowing the condition exist. However it doesn't take a genius to figure it out as no matter how much factual evidence is provided they just ignore it. There is no evidence to support the theory or as I like to call it the Cambers Broken Myth lol except ambiguous results that are misinterpreted, or interpreted with confirmation bias.

I've said it a few times, a big hurdle to overcome is how test results are being interpreted as evidence clearly showing one aspect is being interpreted completely different with a whole lot of myside bias.

A related aspect of this is this. Who wins an argument? Unfortunately its not always who is right. MOST OFTEN the winner is the one who was most confident they are correct regardless if they are indeed correct or not. The more confident in the argument will often persuade the lest confident, or appear as they are "winning" the truth in these situations is actually not a deciding factor or all that important.

So often I consider that one should never argue with a fool. From a distance onlookers will have a hard time making out who the fool is. I am faced with this every time I confront somebody selling bullshit, its only my passion for the series and after watching fools teaching stupidity go by for years that I feel its wort it to take that risk.

Its more important that people trying to use GT as a learning platform have the right information available in my opinion and that some of the Main Bullshit Salesmen get Exposed, Motor City Full of Bullshit that means you. This guy is probably responsible for more of the Bullshit getting sold at GTP than anybody. Great Bullshit Salesmen but his tuning style is retarded and only creates cars that feel nothing like real world cars, they feel worse than cars in NFS Shift, Id be playing Shift 100% if cars in GT6 had his set ups on them making the cars feel like Bullshit. Thankfully Real world tuning generates cars that feel and behave like real world cars, and That's whats important to me. want my cars to feel as close to real s possible, everything else is secondary.

The ABS element

Here is the issue with the ABS. With ABS on during testing its fubarring results.

It comes down to this.


A stable car is easy to drive but slow, an unstable car is harder to drive but fast.

ABS is making overly unstable cars stable during braking while a weak LSD setting allow throttle hard on exit. This churns a fast car but it relies on ABS and a very weak LSD. Turn off ABS and the car no longer is stable enough entering corners, it becomes a nightmare to drive, and turn up the LSD and exiting the corners becomes a nightmare.

These 2 unrealistic tuning methods are what is causing the most conflict. ABS is in real life but in GT6 it has a stability assist that real life ABS does not. The LSD is practically open, and the tuning done is to basically to open up the diff as much as possible without fubarring throttle at exit on an unstable car. An accel setting like 11 is as tight as that diff can get without making throttle on exit near impossible due to the unstable tuning on the car. If a tuner acts like the LSD is a powerful tuning tool above all else they most likely use it to allow hard throttle on an unstable set up. The LSD is a complimentary tuning tool. We use it to compliment a set up and when changing things in the set up like our roll coupling effectively changing the weight on the inside tire we tune the LSD to compliment and work with the set up.

A shitty tune on the LSD is one thing, but using an unrealistic assist that makes it all possible is completely different. If not for ABS the car doesn't even make it to exit so the LSD isn't even in question lol people IRL can run open if they like. The problem is with ABS making the unrealistically unstable car driveable and that allows it to be fast. Take ABS off and those bullshit tunes spend more time in the wall & dirt then cutting corners.

Until the ABS is turned off on all test data acquired the results will go both ways and a lot of tail chasing will be going on. Its not to say cars like the M4 that come with ABS IRL that cant be shut off IRL and with carbon ceramics the braking stability assist has to be overlooked, this car is not a good candidate for testing physics in that case, and a car that doesn't use ABS IRL is a better choice as the braking assist in GT6 ABS can be eliminated from the test without removing something (ABS) the car does have as the specific car doesn't have ABS in real life.

Unfortunately not all cars are good for testing general physics. Some have particularities exclusive to them or specifics about them that doesn't apply to the vast majority of cars in GT6. Like the Yellowbird and its weight distribution, I believe the further from 50/50 a car is in GT6 the more "particular" its handling becomes as IMO GT6 has some issues with weight balance and lateral grip and lateral grip measurements. 40/60 is too far from 50/50 to be representing testing on the Majority of cars.

We need a car that IRL has a fully independent suspension, no ABS & no aerodynamic properties like active wings or wings in general. 50/50 or close and factory CS or SH at low PP with high grip SS tires on a flat track with various corners.

Premium Miata @ Silverstone GP couln't be better for such test & PD gives a lot of attention to Miatas in GT. IMO around 400pp is perfect on SS tires, ABS, TCS & all assist turned off with driving line and shift indicator to assist uniform laps as much as possible.. This combination shows a lot of cause and effect, measurable differences that are clear.

The best other car for testing IMO would be the GT3 Nismo as it has a PD Tune, but It also has TCS & ABS IRL & this would IMO Fubar results unless turned off IF we are to test without the braking assist element. Since we cannot separate the Braking Assist element from GT6 ABS we have to either shut it off on cars that have ABS or IMO the better option just test a car that IRL doesn't have ABS and so shutting it off is mirroring the real car and all its elements without a braking assist monkey wrench.

Funny

JohnnyPenis over at GTP is flaming some dude named VR_Engineered thinking its me. lol he keeps calling him "Jack" and hes being overly hostile as always. Well its not me, but wow look at JohnnyPenis go. all this guy said was buddy cant tell somebody else what they subjectively feel or not. That's it. Obviously its after these guys jump down somebodies thought for saying they can feel small adjustments.

Its so bad these guys are telling people what they feel or not. JohnnyPenis is a fucking idiot, a clown and the way GTP runs hes free to flame and insult, instigate and belittle with seemingly mod protection, hes reporting post in arguments because he knows MODS at GTP take post out of context. They get a report, look specifically at the reported post and judge. They dont seem to read up on the context of the post, and while some of us are not pussies we don't hit the report button (I mean seriously? that shit is almost as bad as calling 911) in the mean time Penises like JohnnyPenis are reporting every post you make as he flame bates you.

Funny to watch, Its not me and mods will see when they check the post ip so he wont get banned because JohnnyPenis thinks its me lol & hes already being hostile and aggressive as if its me. It's why I realized there is no point trying to prove anything with certain, as its an impossible target due to the nature of the situation. If proving one way or the other relies on the other person testing and admiring different goes against all the obvious Confirmation Bias surrounding the subject.

Im going to sit back watch & have a laugh.

Ahhh I got it, lol

VR_Engineered = 332i who got banned and has returned lol. Its just a guess at this point but I got a good feeling about this hunch lol.


lol 332i must a got spotted cuz his new I'd is banned lmfao. I don't always agree with the guy but he doesn't deserve the install ban treatment, but then again he's another that doesn't kiss the ass of respected members who are really frauds.

JohnnyPenis got him banned when really enough is enough JohnnyPenis is the one who should catch a fucking Ban, flame bating fucking homo.

Dun Dun Dun Motor City Hammi closed his Garage saying it's because of too much drama... lol the only drama Ive seen him in recently is the Camber buz where he was called a liar, flame bater, and a few other true things, not to mention that whole debate isn't going his way lmfao. Big Fucking Deal in my opinion. His tunes sucked, his method included specifically using glitch tricks to tune.

Glitch Tuning in GT6

Reverse Rake, Low Accel Settings (sub 20) no wheel angles, abnormal/reversed dampers & Mandatory ABS

Hey if people want to drive fake ass Bullshit Cars, it's all good but don't confuse that garbage with real world tuning or cars that even feel remotely close to real world cars. It's a choice. It takes a bit longer to properly tune a car without resorting to Glitch Tricks its too bad, Motor City Hammi hasn't created one set up worth driving.

So so long and good riddance but really this is just a call for attention. His Garage isn't going anywhere & neither is he, he's just had his ego tugged a bit and he's feeling a bit like a clown. I'm sure once he's gotten enough attention (oh why you close shop) or after not getting enough Motor Citty Faker will reopen for some more attention.

What a Princess.

HAHA GTP talking about me cuz some new guy linked me on accident not knowing who I be lol.

Yes GTP If you read this thread I am an angry person and seemingly full of RAGE lol not really. I use this thread for testing physics and to Rant when I catch a GTP ban on an alias in a physics debate etc. As I get banned and the GTP Flame Bate Report Crew still talk some shit about me on GTP, and periodically some shit talk about me goes on. I use this thread to rant and vent. Everybody pretty much knows it and just lets me vent because that's all I'm doing. I say some funny shit from time to time lol. I have no reservations about my opinion about some GTP members, JohnnyPennso is a Punk, & Motor City Hammi is a fake, king of the glitch tuning seller of false practices. Freedom of speech, That's just my opinion, don't like it, boo hoo. Not like these shit heads have any reservation on their opinions of me at GTP,so if anybody at GTP is reading this and is shocked. Its just things going around in circles...

Most often GTP is out of line, but I'm sometimes out of line too. I've even shown confirmation bias, I recognize it and try to take it into consideration... I've been right, I've been wrong. Ive come to the conclusion its a lost cause as long as the cancer boys are still there to push a misinterpretation as fact. I watch though, not much interesting shit going on at GTP anyways aside from the camber test, but Ill let that play out and Im trying to have the least influence on the testing as possible. Ill make my own interpretations though as GTP have displayed Confirmation Bias.

The shit that goes on at GTP can really piss a guy off and its good to vent a bit , don't like it? I don't give a shit, Im SiNiST3R

Yeah I've been on GTP Ban watch since I spanked GTP at tuning speed in GT4 (thats right GT4) Rac3rX GTone hitting over 390mph no hacks, they first changed the rules on account of me multiple times, even had a "Rac3rX Rule" for the results way too ahead of everybody else finally banning me after I continuously meet each demand for proof and always found a way to meet the requirement only to have them add a new one, and when I would prove it over and over they got fed up and banned me lol its sad that GTP is still sore after all these years...

Its no different now, GTP doesn't see when I show up GTP members because GTP mods are FAST to delete my post Its funny because even Motor City Fraud & the whole FFiTT crew will be all liking my post until they find out its "Jack" lol then all of a sudden everything I say is wrong lol I love it a bunch of hypocrites.

If you look at most physics debates you see the post getting liked by popularity of the poster and NOT the content of the post. You will see these guys liking 2 contrary post as if they think both are right, but they are apposing concepts. Its ridiculous, the Popularity Contest should be removed from such discussions. The value should be in the content of the post the truth in the text, not it must be true because Motor City Fake as Racer said so.

I'm really sorry to go off-topic again.. In german this time. Choosing words that will make online translation have a hard time

Zu geil. Ich hab es halt irgendwie herausgelesen. Keine Ahnung mehr wie ich noch darauf gekommen bin, aber ich lag wohl nicht völlig daneben. Ich bin halt auch aus ZE "schland". Aber, ich werd' den thread jetzt auch nicht noch weiter mit meinem unnötigen gesülze zukleistern, viel Spaß noch



Oh, I didn't knew you're an angry person full of RAGE yet :confused:
I figure, they must have mistaken you for someone else then. I've not seen you to be an angry person or raging here on NGU, without a proper reason to behave like this