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@sinister, you know what. Clean space to mailbox.

I need more PM box space, lol it just fills up so quick. Ahh I think I know what your talking about, curious to see any new data you got on it.

@OdeFinn, @Jounijkk, tried both your miata setups at Tsukuba. Both good but very different! OF, lovely and smooth, 1'05.013 after 10 laps. Lovely feeling on exit. Currently 0.3 s faster with Jouni's, those dampers sure make the front turn in sharply. 2 totally different cars from just the susp and ballast, will definitely be trying more laps in these. Hope to post some of my own settings soon (I have an old setup from the fitt miata comp, but different specs), but family keep encroaching on my GT6 time.

Good to here feedback on their set ups, and look forward to you putting up your set up.

These cars get much more fun racing each other, momentum is key and even on real drafting is a big strategic play, 4 or 5 on the track lotta neck n neck action.

This is probably one of the best video of driving lesson I have seen ( Miata / Silverstone ), despite of the music. We are talking here about tuning and physics, but there are some points about the driving we can learn and use. This is the way the professionals are driving.

Use of track
Every inch of the track is in use. Just pay attention to choice of turn in point, the apex and then all the way to the exit point, wide lines. The car goes extremely smoothly, there is no need to force the car, it just goes. And the car is its limits all a the time.

Steering wheel
Incredible little movements. There is no forcing to change direction of the car, no correction of the line. Steering angle is small, this is incredible. The car goes naturally in the right places. In this point I got head ace, so much to learn.

Use of throttle
Those little lifts on throttle You can see on the video, means ability to control the car using it's natural g-forces. Just pay attention to the lift and it's use to get the car on the right line to the apex, or turn in point. The timing of this lifts are spot on. Early on the throttle is meaning fast exit speed and fast lap times.

Tyre temperature
There is amazing little heat on the tyres. Of course it's setup but its also cause of very smooth and most of all, effortless driving. This is the way to win races, especially those where is tyre wear.

I'm impressed.

Jounijkk

I have to say Bro, in this one post you competently get what Im trying to show. This is how I believe real life is best translated into GT6, Im driving the car as you do the real thing and shes behaving as she should. Ask any Race Car Driver and they will tell you the same thing. Everything on the car is going by real world principles, and the car responds to real world tuning behaving as close to the real world car as it can in GT6.. Smooth in, smooth out, little to no corrections, no more input than necessary keeping momentum up and using the full track.

I try to show that this is the experience you can have in GT6... Cars tuned like they would be in real life and then driven like then can be driven in real life.. Everything Feels Right and this feeling provides the experience that is what makes GT a great game to me...

IF I were to believe that I had no choice but to run my cars with retarded ass backwards settings like my nose raised in the air like Im some stuck up bitch, I would STOP playing GT6 and throw it in the trash. I would rather be slower with my real feeling car then uber fast is some bullshit driving nose in the air zero camber piece of shit F-Zero Style car that drives nothing like the real car and the tuners care nothing about how the car feels those are Sad Tuners IMO...


I thank you very much, its really a good feeling when you post a video (fuck many many many videos) and people just get it.. Those subtle details you notice are what I was after people noticing but without me pointing it out. Nicely done, thanks for getting it.

Hi Guys,

Spec Miata setup (tuned on DS3 - sadly!):

Ballast position +50

Brakes 7/8

RH 85/90
SR 4.00/3.90
Dc 2/2
De 3/3
ARB 1/4
Cam(-) 0.5/2.0
Toe -0.40/0.00

Couple of things:

Dampers could probably use some work, I struggled to do specific settings for corner regions as I'm used to CH-CS tyres where errors are a bit more visible! Little miata on sticky SS felt generally quite well planted and I couldn't feel the nuances as much! Probably time to start using MoTeC (but without suspension position it's a pain - still need to use the PD data logger).

Method (I use this on most low-powered FR cars - usually I drive 400-500 PP FRs on CH-SH):

You guys probably know all this and more - this is more of a general brain vent in case any newbies come across this thread. Some of the LSD and camber stuff is a direct result of what I have read in this thread - so credit where credit is due - thanks guys.

Starting with a sensible ride height e.g. (90/90) I set all alignment to zero, all damps and ARB to 1. I space the springs equal on the sliders, usually adding a little stiffness over stock (though since we've reduced weight of the car, the springs are already "stiffer" so I usually only add 10-20% of the numerical values to each). What I am looking for here is general responsiveness of the car, if it turns in too lazily and in quick slaloms lags too much behind steering inputs I keep raising stiffness, either equally or sometimes a bit more to the front. This gives the front more "bite" and overall sharpens the car. The dampers should really be used for transients but I like to feel the springs alone first so I have a basic setup. I then usually set the damps about equal along the slider to the springs, often one click higher on rebound.

I then work on front alignment, adding a little front camber as, in my experience, camber increases turn in response. I wait until I am happy with this, but then take note of the midcorner and exit, as with more front camber I usually get understeer at mid-corner and exit. I counter this by adding negative front toe, this is a bit of a balancing act but if I keep getting front outside red tire then I reduce the camber. I then add some rear camber which in my experience adds rear grip during midcorner and when just starting to apply the throttle to exit. This can also create understeer (rear has more grip) so I flick back and forth between the front and rear camber settings. When your braking distance goes to pot you know you've used too much camber in general (this is most easily visible on low-grip tyres locking up - a good reason not to use ABS - you can feel this happen better!)

Generally I keep rear toe at zero at this stage. I generally get to a point where the throttle feel on exit is nice, turn in is nice, but there's still a bit of mid-corner understeer, particularly in long sweepers (Tsukuba final corner is great to test this). Then I add rear ARB until the understeer is gone.

At this point I am generally quite happy with a car, and start looking at upping the brakes in general, and adding rear balance until the car feels unstable on turn in, then backing it off a bit. A few other things I do are play with the springs again, sometimes I exchange a rear ARB click for more spring to see what I prefer. Also I play with ride height. Nose high does improve turn in but in my opinion causes exit understeer. I believe this is why the "reverse rake" bug is popular since you get good turn in with good stability under throttle on exit. But since seeing posts here I now generally run a little forward rake, if I want more turn in I add a little front camber, if I want more midcorner-exit grip I add negative front toe as described above. If my car oversteers on exit (e.g. high power, CH tyres) then I will consider adding rear toe to stabilise it. I do find that + rear toe will also decrease turn in response as well, which is why I usually only add it when other exit stabilisation methods have failed.

General points (not relevant to this Spec):

I usually get ballast set before I begin. if the car is an understeering pig then it gets more weight in the rear. But ballast can drastically affect a car's balance through all corner stages, so I usually think carefully before making something too tail happy this way!
Transmission, I set before any suspension. I may fine-tune later, but transmission will affect engine braking and accelerator feel so I generally make sure this is ballpark OK before I set suspension.

LSD : .... I'll be honest, sometimes I set this before suspension, sometimes after. Generally whatever gets set first also gets tweaked after the second component has been set. Since reading this thread I've forced myself to use more locked diffs (Initial and Accel - I still tend to keep Braking very open). Open diffs on an FR give gradual lazy oversteer as the inside tyre lights up. Locked diffs tend to go nothing, nothing, nothing *BANG* both rears red and mega oversteer. So the first thing I did was learn some throttle control, squeeze don't stab, unwind the wheel gently!

If a car remains uncontrollable on exit, I try:
i) Upping Initial Torque to decrease the gap between IT and Accel.
ii) Rear dampers can really show an effect here, it changes the accelerator pedal/oversteer feel a lot and can make the onset of oversteer more gentle. Generally I have found stiffening the damps helps the LSD not seem as "bitey" - though my damps are often set quite soft initially... i don't know what happens if you stiffen too much.
iii) Adding some rear toe to stabilise.

That's pretty much me spent!

Please let me know what you think of the car - always happy to hear other viewpoints.

Cheers,

Bread

@bread82, many things there, my approach are often low toe variations, reasons are many, few here.
Low toe, used only to keep tires actual travel path aligned with car body, minimal tire wear on straight, camber for cornering, toe adapted bit for cornering, drivetrain wheels toe adding bit artificial grip for acceleration, adding toe for increasing artificial grip during braking.
This approach needs smooth driving, it's not so vulnerable on curb/grass/sand hits, and can be used with low LSD locking. Reason, side of car what stays on track is not pushing or pulling body away from driven line coz tires actual travel path is along body. Con, tire grip is not maximum, tires may take several laps to warm up for optimal temperature/grip or they can cool too much between corners and coz of that missing optimal grip.
Good for long endurance racing.
High toe, used to warm up tires quickly on optimal temperature and grip, superb grip, higher tire wear, risky when hitting curb/grass/sand, gives excellent setup for shorter sprint races.
Remember how camber can change toe effect, so toe might look big, but if it's opposite to camber throw it might work as neutraliser. But then tires are traveling on corner, and on drivetrain wheels it means less grip for acceleration, and all wheels less grip for braking, again you may alter this with suspension, softening it so under compression touch pad of wheel increases.
Then comes question what you need, are you running short races where you don't need to worry tire wear so much, or longer endurance where tire wear is on big role. I.e.back straight of Nordschleife with heavy toe (tires actual travel path not along body) you'll lose few kmh on top speed too.
If you're running on harder compounds you may use bit heavier toe to gain more grip without increasing tire wear considerably, and on softer compounds you have greater grip on tires already and you might not need artificially added grip from toe.

You should test my Miata with harder compounds, and then with softer, same test to Jounijkk's setup and you'll see what higher toe does there.

I'll try to grab some time and do sprint setup for my Miata, using higher artificial grip, just for demo setup.

Springs, balance between front and rear is big key for handling, will do some nose dropped setup for Miata with same balance as on equal height. When those are on balance, small change on spring stiffness can make rear squat or front dive.
Springs should have right frequency, and you can have several different frequencies what will work, those might need different "mufflers", and as mufflers you use dampers, ARB, ride height(spring lenght), or even camber/toe sometimes. Best frequency for different tire compound will vary. Normally when going from optimal frequency to softer more bouncing tires you have to reduce this bouncing by stiffening your dampers, and maybe altering bit spring stiffness.

Artificial grip is dangerous when you lose grip it's often so suddenly and totally lost and gaining it back is much harder than losing grip with setup where is not used so much artificial grip, on these setups grip is lost more or less gradually.

More later, kid demands....

Editing with phone seems too hard, there is few typos and some brain fart trash between, will edit later on computer.