Post: Why Mw2 is better then Black Ops 2
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03-12-2013, 03:03 AM
#1
Contributed
I defeated!
Modern Warfare 2
-Better maps
-Better flow
-Better hit detection
-Good story
-Well balanced
-Just a better game
-Pro Circuit was more competitive back then as to now
Black Ops 2
-Almost unplayable with lag
-Horrible hit detection
-Not great maps (New Maps are terrible)
-Biggest Connection Game Made
-Not a map in BO2 where you can cross the map without hitting a choke point.
-League play is cool
-Love how they took zombies to whole another level
-The whole objective thing is cool
-A lot of variety of guns you can use in competitive without having an unfair advantage.
-Ps3 frozed about 20 times total.
Fluidity: MW2
Weapons: MW2
Maps: MW2
Minigame: BOII (Zombies)
Playability: Mw2
Overall Mw2 is a way better game then BO II.
Originally posted by spudeeelad
MW2 was better for many, many reasons.
1) 99% good connection and extremely rare that I ended up with foreigners in my games. These days, I am playing against all sorts of fucking languages that I can't even understand - I can understand a fair bit of French and German and a tiny bit of Spanish, so fuck knows where these people are that i'm getting matched up with these days, but I would guess at Turkey. But i've ended up in matches with people from South fuckin' Africa! Is it really any wonder I lag?!
2) Hosting (not modding) gave me like a 0.00001 second advantage, often useless, but every once in every 1000 or so times, that 0.00001 second would save my life.
3) Whilst stabbing across the map with Commando was undoubtedly stupid, at least it worked! Since Black Ops 1 stabbing has become completely and utterly pointless because my knife seemingly goes straight through people and they just ignore it and it's like what the actual fuck? I've just butchered you mate. . . The problem could have been solved simply by reducing the range of the stab, or even just removing Commando but leaving the other aspects of the stab intact.
4) S&
was the dogs bollocks on MW2, mostly because people played it properly and the maps allowed it. S& these days has become one big camp fest and you may as well set up a tent and go roast some fuckin' marshmellows on a bonfire whilst you wait for someone to actually change position.
The MW2 maps made it instant chaos because you had to be quick to avoid sniper fire if you were not a sniper yourself and it was a fast moving game mode where the planting the bomb was massively tactical, usually when you were last alive and there was one enemy left, you would plant the bomb purely to draw them out. These days, it's either all this rushing to the bomb and planting in 15 seconds, which is really boring, or someone picking up the bomb and camping in the same spot.
5) Having Ghost (or whatever they call it these days) as something you unlock at the last level is stupid. There should NEVER be a point in which you are not able to hide from UAVs and it should be a level 5 perk which is unlocked as soon as you can create your first class. Stealth is a HUGE part of the game and it's effectively been completely neutralised because there is so much UAV spam because people know if you're under a certain level you cannot hide and as the game has grown older and people gone up the levels, the spam has not subsided, people still totally overuse and rely on it.
6) Spawn points are once again horrendous in Black Ops 2. I don't recall ever having spawned in stupid places on MW2 with the exception of Demolition where you always spawned in the same 3 or 4 places, which is still the same but has now seemingly spread to other game modes. It is now sp predictable that you can literally yell out 'Spawn switch!' down your headset and your entire clan knows to instantly turn and head in the opposite direction.
7) I've had well in excess of 50 hard freezes on Black Ops 2 and it has barely improved despite the patches and installation of the textures. This never happened on MW2, EVER.
Partying up has been difficult on all games since MW2, particularly on both Black Ops games. Bsck in MW2, there was no sitting there for 15 minutes whilst it says 'reconnecting to party' and all this nonsense, it just worked. There was also no loss of party members who get stuck in the party, but don't get taken into the pre-game lobby with you and the rest of the clan, forcing you to back out.
9) On MW2 there was no lag compensation meaning that when I died and watched the killcam, it actually showed me what happened, not something completely different to what my screen had just shown me 5 seconds earlier.
10) On Black Ops 2, you can throw C4s across the map and detonate them in mid-air, which is ludicrous.
11) Quick-scoping was out of control on MW2, but if you were smart, you could cope with it. Now on BO2 it's not even quick scoping, it's no scoping half the time and thanks to aim-assist, it takes absolutely no fucking talent to do it.
12) The introduction of Scorestreaks has been a step forward overall I think, but it has created some really bullshit scenarios. For example, i'm on a streak which is a combination of say, objective point captures and kills and i'm like 50 points away from VTOL Warship or whatever my highest streak is, and some person who I just killed 5 seconds earlier spawns near an objective and instantly captures it, like on Hardpoint, and they have Hardline on and it instantly gives them one of them fucking exploding paper airplanes which flies across the map and wipes me out. It's like DAFUQ?! That's not right.
What I would like to see is a compromise where in which, like Assault and Support Package, where you choose an option of whether you are an objective based player, or a pure kills type of player. Then, depending on which you choose, you can decide within certain boundaries what weighting your kills and objective captures (or bomb plants or whatever) hold towards your scorestreaks. For example, you should be able to run as 50/50 up to 75%:25% and then, for example, given a 75% weighting towards objectives, you'd need 3 kills to achieve the same points as an objective capture or vice versa 3 objective captures to 1 kill.
1) 99% good connection and extremely rare that I ended up with foreigners in my games. These days, I am playing against all sorts of fucking languages that I can't even understand - I can understand a fair bit of French and German and a tiny bit of Spanish, so fuck knows where these people are that i'm getting matched up with these days, but I would guess at Turkey. But i've ended up in matches with people from South fuckin' Africa! Is it really any wonder I lag?!
2) Hosting (not modding) gave me like a 0.00001 second advantage, often useless, but every once in every 1000 or so times, that 0.00001 second would save my life.
3) Whilst stabbing across the map with Commando was undoubtedly stupid, at least it worked! Since Black Ops 1 stabbing has become completely and utterly pointless because my knife seemingly goes straight through people and they just ignore it and it's like what the actual fuck? I've just butchered you mate. . . The problem could have been solved simply by reducing the range of the stab, or even just removing Commando but leaving the other aspects of the stab intact.
4) S&
was the dogs bollocks on MW2, mostly because people played it properly and the maps allowed it. S& these days has become one big camp fest and you may as well set up a tent and go roast some fuckin' marshmellows on a bonfire whilst you wait for someone to actually change position. The MW2 maps made it instant chaos because you had to be quick to avoid sniper fire if you were not a sniper yourself and it was a fast moving game mode where the planting the bomb was massively tactical, usually when you were last alive and there was one enemy left, you would plant the bomb purely to draw them out. These days, it's either all this rushing to the bomb and planting in 15 seconds, which is really boring, or someone picking up the bomb and camping in the same spot.
5) Having Ghost (or whatever they call it these days) as something you unlock at the last level is stupid. There should NEVER be a point in which you are not able to hide from UAVs and it should be a level 5 perk which is unlocked as soon as you can create your first class. Stealth is a HUGE part of the game and it's effectively been completely neutralised because there is so much UAV spam because people know if you're under a certain level you cannot hide and as the game has grown older and people gone up the levels, the spam has not subsided, people still totally overuse and rely on it.
6) Spawn points are once again horrendous in Black Ops 2. I don't recall ever having spawned in stupid places on MW2 with the exception of Demolition where you always spawned in the same 3 or 4 places, which is still the same but has now seemingly spread to other game modes. It is now sp predictable that you can literally yell out 'Spawn switch!' down your headset and your entire clan knows to instantly turn and head in the opposite direction.
7) I've had well in excess of 50 hard freezes on Black Ops 2 and it has barely improved despite the patches and installation of the textures. This never happened on MW2, EVER.
Partying up has been difficult on all games since MW2, particularly on both Black Ops games. Bsck in MW2, there was no sitting there for 15 minutes whilst it says 'reconnecting to party' and all this nonsense, it just worked. There was also no loss of party members who get stuck in the party, but don't get taken into the pre-game lobby with you and the rest of the clan, forcing you to back out.9) On MW2 there was no lag compensation meaning that when I died and watched the killcam, it actually showed me what happened, not something completely different to what my screen had just shown me 5 seconds earlier.
10) On Black Ops 2, you can throw C4s across the map and detonate them in mid-air, which is ludicrous.
11) Quick-scoping was out of control on MW2, but if you were smart, you could cope with it. Now on BO2 it's not even quick scoping, it's no scoping half the time and thanks to aim-assist, it takes absolutely no fucking talent to do it.
12) The introduction of Scorestreaks has been a step forward overall I think, but it has created some really bullshit scenarios. For example, i'm on a streak which is a combination of say, objective point captures and kills and i'm like 50 points away from VTOL Warship or whatever my highest streak is, and some person who I just killed 5 seconds earlier spawns near an objective and instantly captures it, like on Hardpoint, and they have Hardline on and it instantly gives them one of them fucking exploding paper airplanes which flies across the map and wipes me out. It's like DAFUQ?! That's not right.
What I would like to see is a compromise where in which, like Assault and Support Package, where you choose an option of whether you are an objective based player, or a pure kills type of player. Then, depending on which you choose, you can decide within certain boundaries what weighting your kills and objective captures (or bomb plants or whatever) hold towards your scorestreaks. For example, you should be able to run as 50/50 up to 75%:25% and then, for example, given a 75% weighting towards objectives, you'd need 3 kills to achieve the same points as an objective capture or vice versa 3 objective captures to 1 kill.
Last edited by
Contributed ; 03-14-2013 at 04:59 PM.
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03-13-2013, 01:36 PM
#56
ResistTheSun
In Flames Much?
Originally posted by Contributed
Host sucks on Black Ops 2- I think it just goes to show who the superior CoD makers are. It's amazing that taking 3 steps back had a much more exciting, free running game where if you died, you didn't feel so cheated - that you lost the gunfight fairly..
Modern Warfare 2
-Better maps
-Better flow
-Better hit detection
-Good story
-Well balanced
-Just a better game
-Pro Circuit was more competitive back then as to now
Black Ops 2
-Almost unplayable with lag
-Horrible hit detection
-Not great maps (New Maps are terrible)
-Biggest Connection Game Made
-Not a map in BO2 where you can cross the map without hitting a choke point.
-League play is cool
-Love how they took zombies to whole another level
-The whole objective thing is cool
-A lot of variety of guns you can use in competitive without having an unfair advantage.
-Ps3 frozed about 20 times total.
Fluidity: MW2
Weapons: MW2
Maps: MW2
Minigame: BOII (Zombies)
Playability: Mw2
Overall Mw2 is a way better game then BO II.
Modern Warfare 2
-Better maps
-Better flow
-Better hit detection
-Good story
-Well balanced
-Just a better game
-Pro Circuit was more competitive back then as to now
Black Ops 2
-Almost unplayable with lag
-Horrible hit detection
-Not great maps (New Maps are terrible)
-Biggest Connection Game Made
-Not a map in BO2 where you can cross the map without hitting a choke point.
-League play is cool
-Love how they took zombies to whole another level
-The whole objective thing is cool
-A lot of variety of guns you can use in competitive without having an unfair advantage.
-Ps3 frozed about 20 times total.
Fluidity: MW2
Weapons: MW2
Maps: MW2
Minigame: BOII (Zombies)
Playability: Mw2
Overall Mw2 is a way better game then BO II.
Rose tinted glasses.
Fact of the matter is each game has the same issue some more obvious compared to others but that what makes call of duty. Map design is made to have 3 choke points only. It the case for all the games it the same idea behind all the games. Call of duty forumla if you dislike that should dislike each one within the series. MW2 stat wise had the best balance but was let down by lacking support and some pretty bad metagame design choices.
Hit detection for the first couple of weeks of MW2 was spotty, it could turn messy at times.
MW2 also had a pretty bad story compared to black ops 2 which was quite good.
I like call of duty but I don't take it serious and willing to see it faults.
Welcome to believe MW2 was problem free and the best but not in my view all that rosey.
03-13-2013, 01:43 PM
#57
Contributed
I defeated!
Originally posted by OVOXO
First of all, Eslpresador does not have that good of a youtube reputation. I stopped the video after he killed 3 people (when he exclaimed: this gun is so OP!!) when the 3 people he killed was ~a meter in front of him. If you think that's OP, I honestly cannot imagine the horrors a shotgun must've done to you when you were a child.
tl;dr : working as intended.
The second shows some guy camping in a room with only 1 entrance for the first 4 mins of a free for all. He could've made anything super awesome in a situation like that.
EDIT: watched the whole first video. He switched to an MP7 halfway through and ended 23-23.
Great definition of overpowered. ._.
tl;dr : working as intended.
The second shows some guy camping in a room with only 1 entrance for the first 4 mins of a free for all. He could've made anything super awesome in a situation like that.
EDIT: watched the whole first video. He switched to an MP7 halfway through and ended 23-23.
Great definition of overpowered. ._.
If you watch the video carefully the lag is so bad that he can't even see the guy and some of his shotgun kills are really far away. Second video shows how much of a noob camper you can be with those. No point about arguing with you since you're just going to say the same shit and not acknowledge how op'ed they are.
03-13-2013, 05:07 PM
#58
Porter_Justice
Cake is a lie
I'm not sure how saying Modern Warfare 2 is better than Black Ops 2 is some groundbreaking revelation...
Modern Warfare 2 is considered the 1st or 2nd best Call of Duty game out of the entire series. MW2 is where COD as a series exploded in popularity. I will address two things.
1.) Modern Warfare 2 is my favorite COD game. That aside saying your death felt "fair" and you lost gunfights "fairly" is far from the truth. For one because online gamers and COD gamers especially always like to feel cheated. Every death was because something unethical the enemy did whether it's camping, using a gun that is too good, being a "tryhard", having quicker reflexes in close aka "panic" knifing, etc. However, MW2 had it's share of deaths that even the most accountable player couldn't feel was "fair". I'd imagine 40% of everyone's deaths were from a damn noob tube flying from the heavens, a guy surviving way too many shots with the aid of Painkiller or a guy knife lunging you from seemingly 5-6 feet away. Getting killed by a Noob Tube that a guy could shoot at a wall or from spawn isn't "fair".
2.) Black Ops 2 and your issues with it seem to be entirely connection based. The game's hit boxes and connections are definitely a lot worst than MW2 and honestly I feel the worst in any COD game. So I'd agree that connection issues occur. Also your chokepoint point is pretty weak. You expecting to run through the middle of the map without getting shot is pretty naive. Unless you're billy bad ass or are facing noobs running through the middle of any map in any COD game is going to be bad. Whether it's from a guy camping, a random grenade hitting you, a killstreak killing you or another person rushing you.
So I agree MW2 is better. Your reasoning seems to be totally based on how bad the connections you get in BO2 is. BO2 is probably the hardest COD game to camp in. I am in no way saying you can't camp. However, it's not as easy to be SUCCESSFUL camping in BO2 versus other COD games especially MW2. MW2 you could camp with any Assault Rifle(besides F2000) and pick people off. You could camp in the back and shoot off noobtubes. You could camp a doorway with an AA12, Striker or Spas 12 if you wanted to. What I like about BO2 is being aggressive and being a killwhore is the best way for success. In MW2 you could rush but camping in MW2 would yield you big kill games. In BO2 you're not getting a big kill game sitting in your spawn very often....I still like MW2 better. Just saying connection issues aside BO2 makes rushing rewarding. Assuming you're not hoping to run through the middle of a map every game...
Also I always love the guy who basically says, "this game sucks" and then when someone questions how good said guy is he always replies with, "My K/D is really high and so is my w/l spm even though that doesn't matter". I'm not debating your skill level at BO2 but saying that is basically like the guy who says one console sucks and pretends that he has both consoles as a way of justifying his opinions and pretending you can't be biased if you own more than one thing.
Modern Warfare 2 is considered the 1st or 2nd best Call of Duty game out of the entire series. MW2 is where COD as a series exploded in popularity. I will address two things.
1.) Modern Warfare 2 is my favorite COD game. That aside saying your death felt "fair" and you lost gunfights "fairly" is far from the truth. For one because online gamers and COD gamers especially always like to feel cheated. Every death was because something unethical the enemy did whether it's camping, using a gun that is too good, being a "tryhard", having quicker reflexes in close aka "panic" knifing, etc. However, MW2 had it's share of deaths that even the most accountable player couldn't feel was "fair". I'd imagine 40% of everyone's deaths were from a damn noob tube flying from the heavens, a guy surviving way too many shots with the aid of Painkiller or a guy knife lunging you from seemingly 5-6 feet away. Getting killed by a Noob Tube that a guy could shoot at a wall or from spawn isn't "fair".
2.) Black Ops 2 and your issues with it seem to be entirely connection based. The game's hit boxes and connections are definitely a lot worst than MW2 and honestly I feel the worst in any COD game. So I'd agree that connection issues occur. Also your chokepoint point is pretty weak. You expecting to run through the middle of the map without getting shot is pretty naive. Unless you're billy bad ass or are facing noobs running through the middle of any map in any COD game is going to be bad. Whether it's from a guy camping, a random grenade hitting you, a killstreak killing you or another person rushing you.
So I agree MW2 is better. Your reasoning seems to be totally based on how bad the connections you get in BO2 is. BO2 is probably the hardest COD game to camp in. I am in no way saying you can't camp. However, it's not as easy to be SUCCESSFUL camping in BO2 versus other COD games especially MW2. MW2 you could camp with any Assault Rifle(besides F2000) and pick people off. You could camp in the back and shoot off noobtubes. You could camp a doorway with an AA12, Striker or Spas 12 if you wanted to. What I like about BO2 is being aggressive and being a killwhore is the best way for success. In MW2 you could rush but camping in MW2 would yield you big kill games. In BO2 you're not getting a big kill game sitting in your spawn very often....I still like MW2 better. Just saying connection issues aside BO2 makes rushing rewarding. Assuming you're not hoping to run through the middle of a map every game...
Also I always love the guy who basically says, "this game sucks" and then when someone questions how good said guy is he always replies with, "My K/D is really high and so is my w/l spm even though that doesn't matter". I'm not debating your skill level at BO2 but saying that is basically like the guy who says one console sucks and pretends that he has both consoles as a way of justifying his opinions and pretending you can't be biased if you own more than one thing.
Last edited by
Porter_Justice ; 03-13-2013 at 05:14 PM.
03-13-2013, 05:20 PM
#59
riggstq
[move]Haters Gonna Hate[/move]
Originally posted by Contributed
Host sucks on Black Ops 2- I think it just goes to show who the superior CoD makers are. It's amazing that taking 3 steps back had a much more exciting, free running game where if you died, you didn't feel so cheated - that you lost the gunfight fairly..
Modern Warfare 2
-Better maps
-Better flow
-Better hit detection
-Good story
-Well balanced
-Just a better game
-Pro Circuit was more competitive back then as to now
Black Ops 2
-Almost unplayable with lag
-Horrible hit detection
-Not great maps (New Maps are terrible)
-Biggest Connection Game Made
-Not a map in BO2 where you can cross the map without hitting a choke point.
-League play is cool
-Love how they took zombies to whole another level
-The whole objective thing is cool
-A lot of variety of guns you can use in competitive without having an unfair advantage.
-Ps3 frozed about 20 times total.
Fluidity: MW2
Weapons: MW2
Maps: MW2
Minigame: BOII (Zombies)
Playability: Mw2
Overall Mw2 is a way better game then BO II.
Modern Warfare 2
-Better maps
-Better flow
-Better hit detection
-Good story
-Well balanced
-Just a better game
-Pro Circuit was more competitive back then as to now
Black Ops 2
-Almost unplayable with lag
-Horrible hit detection
-Not great maps (New Maps are terrible)
-Biggest Connection Game Made
-Not a map in BO2 where you can cross the map without hitting a choke point.
-League play is cool
-Love how they took zombies to whole another level
-The whole objective thing is cool
-A lot of variety of guns you can use in competitive without having an unfair advantage.
-Ps3 frozed about 20 times total.
Fluidity: MW2
Weapons: MW2
Maps: MW2
Minigame: BOII (Zombies)
Playability: Mw2
Overall Mw2 is a way better game then BO II.
im sorry but to comapre these two games is a bit of a joke tbh, 1. mw2 might have good host yes but 90% of the time the person with host also has a menu :|, how can you honestly say that when you die on mw2 you havent been cheated you must be playing hardcore because if u actually took a sec to watch them killcams you will see people will auto aim and uav running around corners shooting :|, if you hadnt noticed im going at the whole hacking side of things as mw2 is badly plagued with kids with usb menus, if you think about mw3 and bo2 as theyre more relevant comparisons you can straight away tell black ops two was made better look how many glitches n vault mods n shit there has been on mw3 where as bops other than dupe gltich theres not actually a glitch that even threatens to ruin the game where as on mw3 you had people watch a vido then run around with walking ac130 :| i think i rest my case xD
03-13-2013, 05:20 PM
#60
Porter_Justice
Cake is a lie
Originally posted by Contributed
If you watch the video carefully the lag is so bad that he can't even see the guy and some of his shotgun kills are really far away. Second video shows how much of a noob camper you can be with those. No point about arguing with you since you're just going to say the same shit and not acknowledge how op'ed they are.
You REALLY lose credibility trying to argue that Black Ops 2 shotguns are overpowered yet somehow failing to mention how great MW2 shotguns were. The worst shotgun in MW2 is better than the best shotgun in BO2. Hell MW2 shotguns were the reason shotguns became primary weapons to begin with. The hit detection that you spoke of makes shotguns very inconsistent. The fact that you could one shot a guy from range with a KSG but then get 3+ hitmarkers right next to a guy should make them far from overpowered.
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03-13-2013, 05:22 PM
#61
Contributed
I defeated!
Originally posted by Justice
You REALLY lose credibility trying to argue that Black Ops 2 shotguns are overpowered yet somehow failing to mention how great MW2 shotguns were. The worst shotgun in MW2 is better than the best shotgun in BO2. Hell MW2 shotguns were the reason shotguns became primary weapons to begin with. The hit detection that you spoke of makes shotguns very inconsistent. The fact that you could one shot a guy from range with a KSG but then get 3+ hitmarkers right next to a guy should make them far from overpowered.
Mw2 shotguns couldn't kill you from 10 miles away thats all I have to say.
The following 2 users groaned at Contributed for this awful post:
03-13-2013, 05:36 PM
#62
Porter_Justice
Cake is a lie
Originally posted by Contributed
Mw2 shotguns couldn't kill you from 10 miles away thats all I have to say.
Neither can BO2 shotguns. You're exaggerating again. I don't normally post videos but this is a video of some random ass dude on Youtube one shotting people from crazy range with a Spas 12. Again I will agree that MW2 is better. You could get a fucking nuke with a Spas 12 or prepatch Model 1887 in MW2. You could spam the shit out of a AA12 in MW2. MW2's shotguns SHIT on BO2's shotguns whether you're talking spam-ability, consistency or range. WTF are you talking about? There is nothing BO2's shotguns can do better than MW2's shotguns. NOTHING. The connections being shaky makes shotguns even less OP since if the connection is terrible that range and one shot effectiveness is severely hurt. I think you just get killed from range with a shotgun and then nerdrage into how overpowered shotguns in BO2 are. You don't see the guy that killed you try to kill the next person from range and getting hitmarkers then dying. Look at the people who use shotguns in BO2's score, they will generally be terrible. Shotguns are annoying but not OP in BO2. A spas 12 or prepatch Model 1887 akimbo could kill from a farther range than a KSG and do it way more consistently...
Spas 12:
Prepatch Model 1887
Last edited by
Porter_Justice ; 03-13-2013 at 05:40 PM.
03-13-2013, 06:29 PM
#63
Contributed
I defeated!
Originally posted by Justice
Neither can BO2 shotguns. You're exaggerating again. I don't normally post videos but this is a video of some random ass dude on Youtube one shotting people from crazy range with a Spas 12. Again I will agree that MW2 is better. You could get a fucking nuke with a Spas 12 or prepatch Model 1887 in MW2. You could spam the shit out of a AA12 in MW2. MW2's shotguns SHIT on BO2's shotguns whether you're talking spam-ability, consistency or range. WTF are you talking about? There is nothing BO2's shotguns can do better than MW2's shotguns. NOTHING. The connections being shaky makes shotguns even less OP since if the connection is terrible that range and one shot effectiveness is severely hurt. I think you just get killed from range with a shotgun and then nerdrage into how overpowered shotguns in BO2 are. You don't see the guy that killed you try to kill the next person from range and getting hitmarkers then dying. Look at the people who use shotguns in BO2's score, they will generally be terrible. Shotguns are annoying but not OP in BO2. A spas 12 or prepatch Model 1887 akimbo could kill from a farther range than a KSG and do it way more consistently...
Spas 12:
Prepatch Model 1887
Spas 12:
Prepatch Model 1887
03-13-2013, 07:05 PM
#64
-{OVOXO}-
PSN: awong_
Originally posted by Justice
You REALLY lose credibility trying to argue that Black Ops 2 shotguns are overpowered yet somehow failing to mention how great MW2 shotguns were. The worst shotgun in MW2 is better than the best shotgun in BO2. Hell MW2 shotguns were the reason shotguns became primary weapons to begin with. The hit detection that you spoke of makes shotguns very inconsistent. The fact that you could one shot a guy from range with a KSG but then get 3+ hitmarkers right next to a guy should make them far from overpowered.
Exactly the message I'm trying to get through this guy's head. On MW2, akimbo 1887s had the range of an SMG, and wasn't balanced for months. Months of imbalance is NON EXISTENT on BO2, completely debunking his "MW2's more balanced" point. The Spas 12 had a similar range, and there are videos of double and triple nukes using the Spas on youtube. But there's still more-- shotguns are SECONDARYS. Compare the secondaries between both games, and you're looking at something like an 16-shot fully auto AA12 secondary of MW2 vs a Tac45 of BO2. Let's not be foolish here, it's obvious one is superior than the other.
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